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Truck plant cuts could force GM to repay government incentives

GREG KEENAN and JOHN PARTRIDGE AND KAREN HOWLETT

Globe and Mail Update

Latest comment posted at 9:04 AM EST 03/06/08

McGuinty says auto maker will likely breach terms of loan agreement ...Read the full article

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  1. Brian Van Ezel from Ottawa, Canada writes: Where is the electric car?
  2. Mike McFee from Ottawa, Canada writes: Unfortunate for anyone to get laid off but the writing was on the wall...
  3. There's just something about Stephen Harper I don't like from Ottawa, Canada writes: Maybe Harper will fly over in a military helicopter to observe the damage.
  4. Scare Crow from Canada writes: No, this can't be. Buzz just signed an agreement with the big three recently isn't it? Why it was plastered as headline in this venerable and inffalible newspaper the G&M. Also the McGuinty gov't, just gave millions to the auto industry. Darn it! They should have just gave that money to the workers.
  5. Commander Groovechild from Canada writes: A certain segment of the population wants these sorts of thing to happen - the end of the automobile and assembly-line jobs. I personally regard plant closures as entirely bad. We lose assembly-line jobs, it is true. We also lose plant mechanics, electricians, robotics engineers and other exceptionally skilled individuals. When the growth enablers are gone, there won't be much need for the white-collar jobs that are even further down the food chain. Without growth, we need fewer teachers, analysts, lawyers and accountants. Those jobs will appear where the growth is happening in other countries.
  6. M Clark from Canada writes: This recession will be a BAD one. Worse than the early 90's recession!
  7. Green Milos from Canada writes: Maybe if GM made cars people want, they wouldn't have to shut down their factories.
  8. Rollo Tomasi from Belgium writes: I drive a fuel efficient, 5 speed 2.5 litre 4 cylinder made-in-Detroit diesel minivan (7.4 / 100k), with the power to accelerate up a steep grade, even with 5 adults and their luggage. You can only buy it in europe, not in north America. Strange, eh?
  9. The comment section stinks from Canada writes: ...meanwhile, Dalton is running around implementing cap and trade regulations while industry implodes around him. You got what you voted for Ontario. Enjoy.
  10. S Boatright from Canada writes: Commander Groovechild from Canada writes: 'A certain segment of the population wants these sorts of thing to happen - the end of the automobile and assembly-line jobs. I personally regard plant closures as entirely bad. We lose assembly-line jobs, it is true. We also lose plant mechanics, electricians, robotics engineers and other exceptionally skilled individuals. When the growth enablers are gone, there won't be much need for the white-collar jobs that are even further down the food chain. Without growth, we need fewer teachers, analysts, lawyers and accountants. Those jobs will appear where the growth is happening in other countries.' I don't think anyone 'wants' these sort of things to happen. What people object to is giving tax dollars to a company that hasn't got a chance in he!! to survive the present times. As for your comment about the job appearing where growth is happening - that is true. What you fail to realize is that growth is happening in other parts of the country right now, in particular Saskatchewan right now. The bottom line is that GM is going the way of the 8-track tape. Ontario needs to quit backing the losing horse - and start looking at diversification. I think the people are starting to see that. Unfortunately McGuinty appears to be a bad choice in leadership through change.
  11. Jeff S from Canada writes: I agree with Green Milos.

    GM should have saw this coming a mile off.

    My guess is though the GM higher up's will still take their nice bonuses this year.
  12. Entitledto Entitlements from Canada writes: Gee, I guess all of this corporate welfare really doesn't work eh Dalton? Let's move towards a lower tax climate for the whole country and work our competitiveness that way, a la Ireland.
  13. Jim Goodwin from Canada writes: I wonder how many of those laid off workers live in Mr. Flaherty's riding. He has been telling us all is well, it is more like Marie Antoinette.
  14. C. O. from Toronto, Canada writes: If we could keep the negative posts to a minimum that would be great -PEOPLE ARE LOSING THEIR JOBS!!

    We all know the history of GM in Oshawa and what great work the employees have done.

    I hope eveyone impacted will be able to find something else until the plant comes back.

    The problems that caused this to happen are beyond the control of the workers..or even the governments of Canada-these bad times shall pass
  15. Joseph Whistle from Canada writes: There is lots of opportunity to build cars people want and need. A better balance between space and fuel economy. Build lighter, but not crappy feeling, and use diesel and/or hybrid to minimize the inefficiencies of combustion engines.
    But nooooohhhh, they have to keep cranking out guzzly crappy cars year and after until they drop. And they're dropping. Who woulda thunk.
    Are they stupid or something. The answer is YES, they ARE.
  16. George BrownIII from Christmas Island writes: Rollo lucky you, the big three should take a trip to Amsterdam, Brussels, Milan, Paris to see how Europeans cope with high fuel prices. Rick and his gang here have not given up the gasguzling V8's. As for my self my passat tdi does fine with 5,7 l/100 km. The patethic 3 cant even come up with something to compete with the VW Jetta tdi.
  17. M D from Canada writes: Maybe Honda will buy the facility, Ontario should auction it off. Why not build Opel there? Fiat? Hello?

    Do we wonder why no European manufacturer with high-technology engines will build in North America? Somethings gotta give.
  18. Nancy Wilson from Canada writes: I can't,for the life of me,understand why the 'Big 3' did not forsee in their business plans,that there would be much less demand for gas guzzlers.
    Brian Van Ezel,
    Electric cars may be a good idea.
    ...But if they were readily available,and everyone starting driving them,just where would we get all the electricity from?
    I have to agree with Mike McFee.The writing was plainly on the wall,for everyone to see,except it seems the Big 3 decision makers.
    Even the workers,must have seen this coming.
    I hope that many of them prepared themselves.
  19. Dick Dupa from Toronto, Canada writes: Commander Groovechild from Canada writes: 'When the growth enablers are gone, there won't be much need for the white-collar jobs that are even further down the food chain. Without growth, we need fewer teachers, analysts, lawyers and accountants. '

    While I agree at least partially, lets face it. Life without growth is possible if not necessary for the planet. In addition, constant growth cannot happen, it is an utopia. Time for rulers and politicians to start adjusting policies and economies to 'non-growth' future. Off course they will refuse to do it - but again , who politicians are? Majority of them are myopic and just plainly stupid, no vision at all, trapped in 'money talk' paranoia.
  20. Ian Gunn from Minneapolis, United States writes: Dam :( At least it gives the above folks 18 months to find another job. Of course looking in a city where so many others are looking isn't going to be easy. One would hope GM will be asked as part of the 'package' to offer up training programs in the local colleges or pay for the moving of people to where there are jobs - western Canada.

    Brian Van Ezel from Ottawa, Canada writes: 'Where is the electric car? '

    The GM Volt was given the green light. According to another report, it will be available in showrooms around the end of 2010. Here's the kicker, they won't have enough production available to meet demand. Question: Why isn't GM converting all these truck plants into producing 'Volt' like vehicles?
  21. Yellow Submariner from Canada writes: The solutions are, oh, so simple. But pride prevents their implementation.

    I've owned two Honda Accords - a 1983 and a 1991. Both went 300,000 km without trouble, using very little fuel.

    Why does GM not purchase the rights to manufacture those two models, then make them by the millions with no change year to year? At the price and economy they'd offer, and the outstanding design and quality, they'd sell like hotcakes. Jobs would be saved, profits would return.
  22. Paul, Bytown, from Canada writes: How's that corporate welfare working out for you Dalton?

    At this rate, Ontario will be rolling in Cap and Trade dough.

    Unfortunately, it won't feed those workers and their families.
  23. Brian M. from Jail from Canada writes: Poor Buzz. There s not much 'Buzz' left in the N.A. auto industry.. Of course Buzz will argue that governments should step in and tell the Toyota, Honda etc to buzz off with their fuel efficient cars.
  24. A A from Canada writes: Is'nt sad how things work. Last week Honda just announced that they are transferring production of larger vehicles to the US and increasing production of Civics thus keeping jobs in Alliston.

    It's sad to see but U.S. corporations are so short sighted nowadays as shareholders only give a crap about short term! I am floored that the visionaries at GM did not see this coming!

    A tale of two companies. It's no secret that the Oshawa plant is one of the best that GM has. Hopefully these cuts will be short term and Oshawa will thrive again.
  25. voy fitzsimmons from Toronto, Canada writes: Ummm, all this talk of electric cars and dancing around the rhubarb patch with the bunny-rabbits is nice, but isn't the factory in question geared to serve the market for crew-cab pickups (primarily sold to trades and businesses)? Different problems altogether!

    That said, North American pickups tend to be unsophisticated and over-engined. Why is that? Does half a ton of gravel weigh more in America than it does in Europe?
  26. S Boatright from Canada writes: Joseph Whistle from Canada writes: 'People referring to McGuinty are idiots. It has nothing to do with him, and it has only to do with a badly managed company with bad decisions.
    The neocons looks like idiots every time they open their mouth. '

    I agree with you that the current situation is a result of badly managed companies making bad decisions.

    But McGuinty has already given GM $236 million Onatrio tax dollars, and wants to give them another $140 million.

    People have a legitimate right to criticize McGuinty. He made a bad business decision too - with taxpayers' money.
  27. B T from Toronto, Canada writes: It is very upsetting that people are losing their jobs, but... how much do they get paid and how much have they saved? It is sad but some of the staff are paid far more than the job they do. This sounds like the TTC ....The 'Big 3' have a HUGE Union that is compensated quite well so while GM is quoting gas prices, it should also include Union Costs. Gas prices in North America are ridiculously low in comparison to Europe. We should have the electric car or more Hybrids produced.
    Perhaps GM is closing plants to slowly get rid of the union??? They can reopen elsewhere and run an efficient vehicle like Honda or Toyota, two good cars that have NO UNIONS....
  28. James S from Canada writes: GM, given that they own Opel, have already brought a number of Opel models over to Canada - the 'Saturn' Astra being the most notable. In theory, GM should be able to bring fuel-efficient, European-engineered designs to North America with little difficulty. Hopefully, GM can retool their Oshawa plant to built the Opel models here.

    As for the concern about how to power electric cars, most of the re-charging would occur during off-peak hours - there's something like 8,000 to 10,000 MW of generating capacity available after 11pm.
  29. A reader from Canada writes: The greed of the oil producing nations is beyond comprehension.
  30. bill johnson from Quebec, Canada writes: 2 points: Buzz sold his members out. He knew and agreed to these cuts, making sure the workers voted on and approved the new pact before the cuts were announced. Some representations.

    2) McGuinty should be feverishly working with GM to land the Chevy Volt in Oshawa. It is the future of the auto and GM is offering it to Detroit right now. Detroit? But they want incentives to land the work. If Dalton would quit banning CO2 and quit banning smoke in cars and quit banning plastic bags and all the other social engineering nonsense he is doing, and work to land this plant, perhaps Ontario could have some good news. The Oshawa workers are top notch, best in the GM assembly family. Harper, work with Dalton and get this plant!
  31. BC Refugee in AB from Canada writes: voy...the crew cab trucks are also a favorite of many in NA as a primary family vehicle....it fits all your needs: haul a family, carry cargo, tow a trailer, vacation with all your junk, trip to dump, etc. It is the almost perfect family vehicle...except for the horrible milage.
  32. Kothar rumbleg from Canada writes: First of all it is unfortunate that anyone has to loose their job and the affect it has on a community and families at large.

    However the American car manufacteurers have basically been caught with their pants down. For years they dominated the market when oil and gas was cheap, with huge gas guzzling vehicles. These SUV's were basically their truck frames made with a passenger cabin. Things were great when oil was low and houses were a plenty to be used as ATM's. Now flip side, housing has crashed (no more house as ATM), Americans are overextended to the max (no more easy credit), and oil prices are through the roof. Put that together and you now have a market place that will not tolerate huge gas guzzling behemoths. NA is the only continent on earth where these things exist. Europe, Asia, South America, Australia, you do not have the majority of population driving these huge things. The move now is to smaller more economical efficient modes of transport.

    The only unfortunate thing is that the plants are not tooled to make these smaller units and so are closed. Hopefully the people laid off will be able to find other lines of work.
  33. Freddie B from Woodbridge from Canada writes: Jim Goodwin from Canada writes: I wonder how many of those laid off workers live in Mr. Flaherty's riding. He has been telling us all is well, it is more like Marie Antoinette.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    What is Flaherty supposed to do? Throw money a dead product. The blame falls squarely with GM mgmt (Ford & Chrysler can be included). The Detroit bunch have been pushing big and powerful for too long. Although, the Japanese have power cars and trucks, they are not the main product. This is primarily an Ontario issue and Dalton should be also made accountable. He and Charet are making laws that add nails to GM's coffin. So Jim, if you must blame a politician, look to McGuinty. He is the one that was quoted prior to the election that the automotive indusrty was thriving.
  34. need news from Canada writes: they will find other work. the untskilled (i.e. non-mechanics, non-electricians) will get jobs at rates they deserve $10-15 an hour plus basic benefits. they should have saved and they deserve if what they get if they did not see that this was coming.
  35. Durward Saar from Canada writes: I guess GM is seeing what Ontario and Quebec are up too and are getting out while the getting is good.
    Cap and trade....Cap the economy and trade jobs for welfare.
    Socialism socialism ra ra ra. idiots
  36. Darren X3 from Toronto, Canada writes: If you work in a pickup truck plant and gas is $4/gallon in the US, your job is on borrowed time, agreement or no agreement.
  37. Mr. Reilly from canukistan, writes: GM has been sliding down the quality slope much the same as the other two manufacturers. If they would build vehicles that people can afford, vehicles that are dependable, vehicles that are not gas suckers then perhaps sales would increase. It seems to me that the big three have been concentrating their efforts at building high cost low quality cars and trucks for too many years now. Joe public has decided that the foreign makers like Honda Toyota etc etc make amore dependable product. I feel bad for the people on the line but we have to stop paying 35/hr for a line worker or a floor sweeper. Lets get back to reality
  38. Simon Cantrell from Toronto, Canada writes: Didn't it just say 1000 jobs a few hours ago? Now it's 2500? Sheeeeeeeeeat, that's a lot of seat buckle installers who were making 80K who will never see that kind of money ever again unless they go and rake pine cones for the government.
  39. Rob F from T.O, Canada writes: Nice job all around...

    McGuinty you're a star.... Tax money pissed away for nothing... People out of work with no transferable skills.... You'll probably get re-elected

    Buzz ... Way to screw the man.... Company was unable to invest the resources it needed .... design better cars ... create more fuel effieciency... Now everyone is screwed.... You'll probably demand a raise for your employees...
  40. steve allan from Canada writes: Last night this article claimed 1,000 jobs were being eliminated. This morning it had grown to 2,000. Now it's 2,500. At the rate we're going the plant will be closed by noon.

    I know that with a web edition, newspapers don't have time to do proper editing, but please let's try to get the facts before posting an article.
  41. Francois A. from Canada writes: Yellow Submariner from Canada writes: The solutions are, oh, so simple. But pride prevents their implementation. I've owned two Honda Accords - a 1983 and a 1991. Both went 300,000 km without trouble, using very little fuel. Why does GM not purchase the rights to manufacture those two models, then make them by the millions with no change year to year? At the price and economy they'd offer, and the outstanding design and quality, they'd sell like hotcakes. Jobs would be saved, profits would return. ---- Excellent point. Here's why it won't happen The big 3 are and have been blinded by their staggering egos, greed and entirely misplaced sense of pride. A mid-80s to mid-90s tech Accord would indeed sell like hotcakes. They are bullet proof. I have always owned foreign cars, because they were more fuel efficient and ependable, Volvo (well not so fuel efficient), 1981 Honda Prelude (it served me well for 300,000 km 1985-90), and a series of VW Golfs/Jettas including my 2000 TDi. At 60 MPG I enjoy it. No it doesn't have a Hemi, No it doesn't have 400HP and do 0-60 in 4.3 sec. Guess what? We don't need those kinds of cars. People have been brainwashed into believing those kind of cars will satisfy their egos. Sad, really. I look forward to a 1.3 diesel TDi-hybrid, imagine a 80-100 mpg Jetta. It'll be here soon. Too bad the big 3 will never build it.
  42. Kublah Khan from Canada writes: I understand that GM plants in Michigan and Ohio will be benefiting from increased production related to these cuts in Oshawa. With an upcoming US election, sounds like politics are involved. Maybe all those GM workers in Oshawa should contact their federal MP for assistance! P.S. Who did they vote for in the last election??
  43. Greg Out West from Canada writes: The ecomomy is starting to really hurt and what are the liberals, NDP and block worried about ? Right, someones ex girl friend that had great assets. Good work guys. I'm sure most Canadians are really happy with the great job and service you're doing to your country.
    Gee another week and you're all off for the entire summer.
  44. Joe Calgarian from Canada writes: I blame Dion and his stupid dog Kyoto!
  45. Y NOT from Canada writes: Corporate welfare aside this could have been predicted to happen years ago. With dramatically escalating gas prices, consumers have signalled since 2001 that they were going to shift and have shifted to smaller gas efficient vehicles. Only three companies did not read the consumer correctly; GM, Ford and Chrysler. Is it any wonder that the companies have either been sold, harvested, divested, reduced capacity and virtually given away vehicles ( family pricing). This all boils down to PI$$ Poor managment decisions, and unfortunately the little guy ( worker) pays!!!!
  46. Alexandra N. from Canada writes: I do not think Canadians have grasped how bad things are going to get, and not just for the manufacturing sector.
  47. Hugo Hall from Calgary, Canada writes: Unfortunately the spin on CBC news this morning according to the union leader they interviewed was that blame lies with the Federal Government and the fact that we haven't based our economy on the Mexican economic model of a devalued currency like the Chretien government did. Of course, politics aside it is awful that a lot of people are going to lose their jobs, and no one should be gloating or making snide remarks about people who are now going to have to endure some trying and difficult times ahead. If there is a positive in this, it is that perhaps Ontario's leaders will now finally wake up to the fact that corporate welfare handouts to the Big 3 is a poor investment of tax dollars, and it is time to invest in other means of generating economic growth.
  48. City Pig from Canada writes: The big three can't compete with foriegn built cars if they continue to pay Union workers $40./hr plus benefits while building an inferior product. I am not going to pay the premium to buy a car built here, sorry that money is going in my pocket.

    People are always screaming about foriegn manufacturing and low wages being paid to foriegn workers but nobody wants to pay $600 for a pair of Nike's.

    The big three have priced themselves out of the market, don't blame the government, blame Buzz Hargrove and the greed of the Unions. Besides, I think Honda and Toyota are building cars here in Ontario aren't they?
  49. need news from Canada writes: I heard the union president on CBC this morning. no wonder union facilities are in trouble. no grasp of reality. blame all others but themselves
  50. james brown from Canada writes: All you readers are right. If only GM or G&M could get the story straight, at this rate we are losing a 1000 jobs per hour.
  51. Volatility Stalker from Canada writes: Toyota is taking a hit too in North America. The auto industry is changing.

    GM is still the world's largest auto manufacturer - and they are shifting production south and east to Asia.

    The sad fact is - it is Canada that has priced itself out of the auto business. Sad if you believe auto's are the future that is.

    Of course auto's have not been the future since 1960.
  52. Simon Cantrell from Toronto, Canada writes: Alexandra N., just what are you talking about? The cheap oil fiesta of unmitigated consumption is going to continue indefinitely, except now it will be with expensive oil. :D
  53. sam johnson from Canada writes: hugo hall - what version of cbc news were you listening to? i heard a union leader say he was a bit stunned as they had just finished negotiating a new wage and benefits package, ans maybe, just maybe they'll retrofit the plant for production of another type of vehicle.
    there isn't money in pickups anymore.
    i didn't hear either government being blamed.
    i guess you're not running low on oil anytime soon? good government will do that for you.
  54. Brenton E. from Canada writes: not a single off shore vehicle should be allowed into the market, I've had enough of labour gouging capitalists screwing the working class.
  55. need news from Canada writes: sam, it was Chris Buckley president of CAW Local 222 on CBC. and he did blame, flahterly, and the federal gov for not pegging the dollar, etc.

    this may be a ploy by GM to get the union to agree to the real concessions needed. thoguhts?
  56. Hugo Hall from Calgary, Canada writes: Granted there are a number of people at fault here: first and foremost, Buzz and his union cronies are at fault for creating an unsustainable labour situation, but the Provincial government is also at fault for perpetuating a corporate welfare-style dependency situation rather than a competitive business climate that encourages investment and job creation, and the 'big 3' are at fault for not adapting quickly enough to changes in the marketplace. But don't forget, the guys who are now out of work were not at fault.
  57. Mark T. from Canada writes: Short answer is, that a 'deal with the union' never has been and never will be a suicide-pact. If the conditions do not warrant making a profit, then the company has an obligation to it's shareholders to either return their capital, or to invest it in something that will provide a return on it's capital.

    This is not Wyatt Oil, yet. But it's starting to look like it...

    Regards,

    Mark
  58. Gronck the realist from Canada writes: Back to the 7o's
  59. S P from Toronto, Canada writes: Just my two cents and many people may not like my comments. In this world, it's all about who has the ability to survive adversity. Sad enough.
    But then in the first place, the auto workers had been very well-treated due to their high wages against their skills. Right now, they just need to find other type of jobs that may not be unionized and receive appropriate pays according to their skills. If one is willing to work, they won't be starved.
  60. bill johnson from Quebec, Canada writes: Kublah Khan from Canada writes: I understand that GM plants in Michigan and Ohio will be benefiting from increased production related to these cuts in Oshawa.

    Kublah, what are you smoking man. Are you aware that they are closing 4 plants, one of which is in Ohio. They staked their fortune a few years ago on fata$$ SUVs and dumb-boy pickups that guzzle fuel. Big mistake, now all the workers (1 Can, 1 Mex, 2 USA plants) get to suffer. Kil the electric car, but build the monster SUV. Smart.
  61. BUB ImumI from Canada writes: ..//

    The workers who lost their jobs will never vote for a carbon tax.

    ...They will blame this on Kyoto.

    good..//
  62. Jack Mrnsie from Canada writes: This will be great, i will definately buy a big suv since everyeone will be driving POS subcompacts i will survive all accidents in a big suv.
  63. B Lam from Canada writes: How much do the GM executives make? I do not think they should get paid at all.
  64. who me? from Canada writes: It's unfortunate that many will be thrown out of work, but this company has nobody to blame but itself. You build something the market wants, or you get out of the way and will be quickly overtaken by somebody that does.

    Doh! It's not like we woke up today and suddenly found gas @ $4/gal. The price has been steadily rising for years, and NOW GM thinks they need to build fuel-efficient vehicles.

    I'll keep my two Japanese and one German car rather than buy a poorly engineered gas-guzzler from the big 3.
  65. Mike L. from Canada writes: George BrownIII from Christmas Island writes: 'As for my self my passat tdi does fine with 5,7 l/100 km. The patethic 3 cant even come up with something to compete with the VW Jetta tdi.'

    My wife has a 2005 Passat TDI and indeed it is very efficient, 1200 km per tank on the highway if driven at the speed limit. I have a newer 2007 Passat wagon with the gas 2.0T turbocharged engine and a 6-speed manual transmission. By following speed limits and driving intelligently, I am averaging 7.0 L/100 km, and getting from 6.4-6.6 L/100 km highway. I am getting close to 1000 km per tank. And by driving gently I can use regular gas instead of the more expensive 'recommended' premium, without any problems. Oddly enough, it has about the same luggage capacity as many large SUVs and can seat 5 in comfort.
  66. Adrian Cristescu from Kitchener, Canada writes: It is well known that big gas guzzlers brought the big profits. The big 3 automakers and their unions were too greedy to look ahead and realize that times will change and now they pay for it.
    I rented a 1.6 Diesel car in Germany last spring, drove it on autobahn with up to 160 km/h for 2 days, when I filled up before returning I couldn't believe my eyes that I got a 4L/100km fuel efficiency. I wish I could just keep the car and bring it with me in Canada.
    By the way, this was an tall Opel hatchback with lots of space, kind of like Matrix volume, I forget the actual moniker.
  67. dave houston from toronto, writes: Wow i am really shocked.

    If they don't watch it their push into crossover vehicles will be mistake too. Any crossover I have seen does not have great gas mileage either. Lets face it. GM or the big three can't make fuel efficient vehicles that anyone wants to but. Period.
  68. Beer and Popcorn from Canada writes: This is just the beginning of the fallout from yesterday's announcement of the new and innovative taxe$ that the provincial Liberal$ are imposing on Ontario - get ready for much, much more..
  69. sam johnson from Canada writes: need news from canada - i just finished watching (more carefully, this time) chris buckley being interviewed in a rainy parking lot and he pointed out they had just finished closing the deal and it's very troubling for all those who will be losing their jobs. he laid the blame squarely on gm and said gm would be sending those jobs to mexico and the southern states. no government was mentioned.
    further buckley mentioned almost in passing, that gm might be thinking that way (re-negotiating). no govt. mentioned.
  70. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: Brenton E, do you really think offshore vehicles should be kept out? You do realize that we export many thousands of vehicles don't you? And that if we ban imported vehicles, other countries will ban imports from Canada, and the auto industry here will shrink even more. You did think about that didn't you? That you can't export while at the same time banning imports? What's that? You didn't think about it? Well, maybe you should.
  71. john Dennis from Canada writes: The big three saw what was happening in the 70's when the first oil crisis showed up and they were starting to get their asses kicked by the Japanese in the auto business. They started to build smaller more efficent vehicles but obviously didn't learn anything and went back to their old ways and started making more big gas guzzelers again because there was more money in it until now. The big three have continued to lose ground to the Japanese and others and their lack of foresight is probably going to cost them their companies this time around!!!!
  72. J F from Canada writes: We had better face it. GM is going to move completely out of Canada.
    They are going to Mexica and Asia. They are going for cheap labour.
    The new Camaro gas guzzler to be built in Oshawa !!!
    Good Luck
  73. Kim Morton from Qualicum Beach, Canada writes: This is only a start. Since the governments are unable or unwilling to reign in the oil speculators we can expect to see a massive slowdown in the economy as most people that still have jobs will need all their discretionary spending money to buy fuel for heat and to go to work. Next to take a hit will be tourism and any place manufacturing RVs.
  74. Derek Holtom from Swan River, Canada writes: The government should give money to help these people move to where the jobs are.
  75. S P from Toronto, Canada writes: Does this closure also affect the engineers working in the Oshawa plant? I know a friend there ..........
  76. M Clark from Canada writes:
    Warren Buffet, the richest man in the world, says this will be a 'long deep recession'.

    I think he is RIGHT!

    Save your money and pay down your debt! It is going to be UGLY!
  77. BiB AmomA from Canada writes: ..//

    Cost of ownership.

    The cost to purchase a big truck is lower now.
    The operating costs on a truck are also lower except for gas.
    For a car, gas will be $12,000 per 100,000 miles.
    For a truck, gas will be $30,000 per 100,000 miles.

    The difference is $18,000 per 100,000 miles
    say 0.05 per mile more.

    The price of a truck is plummeting (not 18K but half that)

    I wager that the price of oil will drop to $60 a barrel.

    So buying a truck now may be a good deal.

    ..//
  78. need news from Canada writes: Sam,

    I was refering to his radio interview with the CBC this morning. he even refeused to speak to Dennis De rosier, as he does not believe what dennis says. I did not see the video clip, will check it out.
  79. Paul G from Toronto, Canada writes: No one has mentioned that our high dollar is much of the problem here. Also the U.S. economy is on the skids and many of these pick-ups were exported there.

    I have driven the same GMC pick-up for 14 years, a full size but sensible short-box, 6 cylinder. I dropped my wife off at Avis last year when her Nissan Altima was in for over $2900 worth of repairs (failures/recalls) and they walked up to take my '95 GMC, the agent thought it was one of their new models!

    My truck has had one minor recall and one defect outside of regular maintenance in 14 years. It's by far the best vehicle I've owned through 30 years of driving.
    ...
  80. Carly MacKay from United States writes: I always feel bad for people who lose their jobs. For those who say I hope they prepared financially for a rainy day - easier said than done these days. GM 's designs for the past few years are not conducive to fuel efficency. Shame on anyone purchasing a Hummer these days. You are taking up more than your fair share of a precious resource. I recently saw a Cadillac Escalade in a parking lot and someone keyed the vehicle with the words 'gas guzzling a@@'. Hopefully these people will get their jobs back when GM starts (?) manufacturing smarter vehicles.
  81. Joseph Whistle from Canada writes: M Clark: 'I think he is RIGHT!'

    Why? Just because a bad car company had to face the music? Other car companies are picking up the slack. Honda and Toyota are doing very well for example.
    House prices are expected to rice by 5% this year, 3.3% next year.

    Doom and gloom ha? You're probably one of those rent guys envy of people that own houses that you can't afford.
  82. Johnny Canuck from Canada writes: You can blame the Dion Liberals & the Ontario/Quebec Governemnts for this closure. Dion is scaring the heck out of every corporation doing business in Canada with his new carbon tax while Quebec & Ontario closed the door yesterday with their carbon cap & trade deal. Mexico ofcourse will be the big winner as their politicians are awake and sensitive to todays economic conditions and the opportunities ahead.
  83. Roger B from Canada writes: The Harper/Flaherty high dollar policy is bearing fruit. More skilled workers and trades people just became available for the Alberta oil sands.
  84. scamp the from Canada writes:
    'It's sad to see but U.S. corporations are so short sighted nowadays as shareholders only give a crap about short term! I am floored that the visionaries at GM did not see this coming!'

    Really? It's the fault of visionaries?
    Let's see isn't also the fault of the union? They were all too happy to get their massive salaries and pensions...they didn't seem to care that they were building SUVs or V8 engines or anything. Where was visionary BUZZ looking out for his members?
    Where was BUZZ questioning the big 3, saying...guys...we don't have any competitive small/midsize vehicles...we're screwed if oil ever jumps? Where was BUZZ looking out for the long term of all the workers?

    Oh no...buzz was just happy bringing home the dough. Of course teh only way the big 3 could afford the big union demands was to manufacture high margin items (like SUVs).

    Yeah, it's not BUZZ's job to plan GM's product line, but it damn sure is his job to make sure the company is going to be profitable long term... it's what keeps worker's employed. In that he failed. We've seen US unions become more adept...like establishing a healthcare trust fund instead of burdening the company, or dropping wages/pension demands. Lets face it. the big 3 are not rolling in the dough right now, and BUZZ refuses to recognize he can't milk these companies anymore.
  85. Joe Canadian from Canada writes: The times they are a changing. Cheap oil is gone. I feel for those who lost their job.
    The sad fact is though the Big 3 have to come up with more fuel efficient vehicles. We still need trucks and vans. They have to be resigned for better fuel efficiency.

    Harper has to also stand up for Canadians and make sure we have fair trade with other nations in the auto sector. That includes labor and environmental standards. The Liberals sure didn't when the signed onto Kyoto. They just wanted carbon brokers making money off the consumers. What did the likes of David Anderson really do? Nothing but mouth off.
  86. S P from Toronto, Canada writes: BiB AmomA from Canada, this is a very selfish thought. I don't agree with you that it's a good time to buy trucks because of the falling price.

    Unless you really need one for work, why do you want to use up the precious gas more than your fair share? Don't you have any responsibility for the environment?
  87. Kothar rumbleg from Canada writes: Blaming a supposed high CDN dollar relative to USD is out the door wrong. It is the USD that has collapsed because of america's preoccupation with debt accumulation and printing money like it was going out of style.
    The Feds should push for a stable or stronger dollar. I can see it now, next week Carney is going to drop the rate once again and devalue the CDN currency further. To what avail? This will only enhance the major inflation that is about to set upon us. Mark my words, leading up the rest of this year and into 2009, prices for everything are going to sky rocket, the manufacteurers and foodies, are going to pass it all right down to us. So it won't be just unemployed CAW's that will be getting stiffed.
  88. bill johnson from Quebec, Canada writes: Buzz sold his members out. Buzz is retiring soon to mint julips in the Caribbean. Will his members get mint julips too, Buzz?

    Time to take the punitive 6.1% duty tariff off Hondas and Toyotas. Without Honda and Toyota, Ontario would be an utter wasteland.
  89. Kothar rumbleg from Canada writes: Canadian dollar high??? It is not high. Right now the AUS dollar is skyrocketing vs our dollar, it is nearly at par with USD! The USD is the one that is tanking. Flarety/Harper have nothing to do with the CDN dollar valuation. The G8 even 2 months ago had a meeting on the tanking USD, they came out and said they prefered a higher USD. They thought their rhetoric would cause the USD to rise....but what happened? The USD continued to drop! The US has to get their fiscal house in order or things will continue to go down down down!
  90. Freddie B from Woodbridge from Canada writes: Roger B from Canada writes: The Harper/Flaherty high dollar policy is bearing fruit. More skilled workers and trades people just became available for the Alberta oil sands.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Dollar is high because oil and resources are high. Now if you think Harper controls world commodity markets, then go lie down and take your little pill. Sweet Dreams little boy.
  91. Imperial K from Canada writes: The writing was on the wall, and in true 'lack of vision' north american corporate style, nothing was done until the 11th hour.

    I don't blame them for the oil prices, but why they waited until it got really bad, when the Asian automakers were adapting, I'll never understand. It's like North American business is this lumbering stupid ox that doesn't know to not run into the forest fire.

    Only now, at the end do they realize their folly. They cancelled the electric car project a few years back, when yes indeed the writing was on the wall.

    Time for some fresh blood in the offices, sounds like we have 90 year olds running the show.
  92. M Clark from Canada writes:
    'Joseph Whistle from Canada'

    Not a renter, but owner of a unleveraged house I have owned for the last 21 years.

    However, you are one of the many in denial. Thousands are losing their jobs in Ontario and not just from GM.

    If you picked a newspaper you would see that our consumer confidence is plunging and Canadas GDP shrank in Q1 and also most economist agree most likely in Q2 making Canada in the first RECESSION since the early 90's.

    If you think this recession won't be bad and the economy goes up forever, I suggest picking up a book in basic economists and learn about 'Economic cycles'. Recessions are nothing new.
  93. Imperial K from Canada writes: As one poster put it here, they will pass the costs down...but to their utter shock and horror, nobody will be buying.

    For the average person, this just means cutting back. No more fast food, no more extra's, just CUT CUT CUT, as the corps are doing. Why should you spend when they aren't? You are not their brother or friend, let them eat cake too. ;)

    Considering the overconsumption, take this as opportunity to eat better, loose some weight, and shed all that garbage from your home they lied to us about and told us we HAD to have.

    This may do well to teach a new generation of the REAL value of food/items etc., IT was all too cheap to start with.
  94. Bob Cajun from coboconk, Canada writes: gosh where did you guys get your economics degrees? Extended cab trucks are big expensive pieces of machinery. Demand for them has dropped in their primary market (construction sub-trades) due to the housing crisis in the USA. Toyota et al are having similar problems with their work truck lines as well. It has nothing to do with the price of gas. GM could close Oshawa for 6 weeks, re-tool their plant so that every pickup built is a hybrid (like the Yukon Hybrid) and it still will not change the demand side of the equation.

    Now if one of you geniuses has figured out a way to kick start a construction boom south of the border, I am sure someone at GM would want to talk to you.
  95. Rain Couver from Canada writes: Mike L. from Canada, as a lifelong VW driver I am glad you are enjoying your Passat. A little advice, use the premium gas or you will suffer the consequences later by having to replace the gas pump. That never happened to me since I did use the premium gas, but it happened to two others Passat owners who thought they could get away with the lower cost gas. I had a wagon as well, so I can tell you with absolute certainty that you need to keep an eye on the rear brakes since it is carrying a heavier mass, I had to replace them after two years because they were at 5%, and we are 'gentle' drivers as well. Finally, somehow the clutch is connected to the turbo engine so that will also have to be replaced after two years. We had never had such problems with our previous VW Golfs, so we downgraded to a Jetta and happy to say we are back to not having any problems.

    As for the plant closures. It is a real shame that people will be losing their jobs. However, a little forward thinking would have seen this disaster happening as gas increased and people stopped driving gas guzzlers. A few posters have mentioned that in Europe, where the gas is horrifically expensive, they have found a way to adapt. Why not use their model? I have been driving European cars that are extremely fuel efficient and they are really quite fun to drive. I am even entertaining the idea of buying a Mazda because they build an efficient model that carries at least 6 people. I never understood the need to have a stupidly huge vehicle. In Europe all those that could claim they need a large vehicle don't? Farmers don't NEED a pickup. Families don't NEED an SUV.
  96. Hugo Hall from Calgary, Canada writes: __________________________________________________________
    sam johnson from Canada writes: hugo hall - what version of cbc news were you listening to? i heard a union leader say he was a bit stunned as they had just finished negotiating a new wage and benefits package, ans maybe, just maybe they'll retrofit the plant for production of another type of vehicle.
    there isn't money in pickups anymore.
    i didn't hear either government being blamed.
    i guess you're not running low on oil anytime soon? good government will do that for you.
    __________________________________________________________

    Sam, it was the morning newscast at about 6:15 - 6:20 Calgary time. Perhaps you ddi not see the same interview, but the union leader specifically mentioned the Federal Government and Jim Flaherty specifically.

    And what does oil have to do with it? Our government here in Alberta is okay, but to be honest they did a better job of running things in the la