Skip navigation

 Login or Register | Member Centre

GM loss widens to $15.5-billion

TOM KRISHER AND DEE-ANN DURBIN

The Associated Press

Latest comment posted at 8:10 AM EST 01/08/08

Third-largest quarterly loss in automaker's history blamed on slow sales, labour problems ...Read the full article

This conversation is closed

  1. Rusty Waters from Canada writes: The oil companies are ruining the economy and lives of thousands of workers. Billions of dollars are made in profit by the oil companies at the expense of massive numbers of hardworking individuals in the manufacturing industry.
  2. Mike McFee from Ottawa, Canada writes: Rusty Waters - Ya that's true and does conrtibute to the problem......
  3. Rob dueck from London, Canada writes: Yep, must be do to Labor Unrest and Restructuring right GM Execs?

    HAHAHA

    Im 34 and Ive never been IN a GM Dealership, why? Cause GM doesnt make a car that interests me enough to buy it!!!
    Their cars are ugly, their materials feel cheap, their seats are too soft and ride like garbage.

    Change those items and Ill take a look.

    I dont buy something just cause its 'domestic' I want value for my money.
  4. Charles Smith from United Kingdom writes: Rusty Waters - Do not despair - the day of reckoning is coming for the oil companies. Demand for the Texas Tea is already starting to decline - this rate of decline will increase exponentially. 12 months from now oil may have dropped to record lows. Keep in mind the Middle East countries like Saudi Arabia need to pump the Black Gold to keep their economies alive – they have the ability to undercut any other player on the planet, and will do that to keep the cash flow rolling. The economies of the US, Japan, and Europe are all moving towards recession &8211; China is not immune to declines &8211; as demand of China's products dries up; where will its economy head?
  5. gerhard beck from Canada writes: Who is responsible for the slow sales? Not the guys on the assembly lines, but the idiots on the top floor who thought bigger and bigger were better. Hummer!
  6. Mandy S from Canada writes: Does this really shock anyone? After producing low quality, gas guzzling products for years, the consequences are being felt.

    I took my car to a GM dealer for an oil change only to have the filter re-installed incorrectly resulting in a blown motor less than 2 months later. When I went back to the dealer, they claimed it wasn't their fault.

    So, is it any surprise people have stopped buying GM products?
  7. robert roels from Canada writes: A billion dollars buys 53,111 homes values at $400,000 and a $30,000 car and $20,000 worth of furniture for each home. That is a city, albeit a small one.

    GMAC took a bit hit today and IndyMac declared bankruptcy today, so much for the 10,000 people like you and I who had over $100 grand of uninsured funds deposited there.

    Dealerships, governments and support industries are going to feel this. Bad part is that GM isn't the only one. Nissan has a loss too.

    The pocket book is empty and it appears the world is starting to run on air. Six months from now it will be much worse. Oil hit $100 for crude only 8 or nine months ago and is 25% higher now.

    One Saudi Prince flew his stupid sports car to England for an oil change at a cost of $45,000. And they say we aren't being played.

    This is not a time for politics as usual. If Harper and the other guy don't wake up soon, they may be facing riots next year.

    I lived in LA during the riots, and contrary to popular belief it was not because of Rodney King, although it sparked them. It was a socio-economic issue.
  8. paul degen from Canada writes: Dave miller.Yup It's their fault for fighting for a living wage through a union. No they should have fed the line workers a bowl of rice a day and payed minimum wage and fire anyone who gets out of line. I really believe you 'Educated people' think you're the new lords and ladies of our society and anyone without a degree should be your servant. Unbelievable. I hope with this downturn in the economy your job gets outsourced to one of Chinas or Indias 'Educated people'
  9. Winston Churchill from London, Canada writes: I-Hate-David: I wouldn't be so quick to blame the workers. I think that the labour cost component of a new car is about 5%, versus, for example, 25% for advertising. The execs seem to have forgotten that if, like Henry Ford, you produce a sturdy car people can buy, you really don't need to advertise.

    Also, that decision -- not to fund pension plans -- was a management decision. Sort of like not funding CPP, assuming that the workforce (or market) will always grow. A dumb decision. Japanese companies, on the other hand, are NOT non-unionised. They have in-house unions, and pensions to which the company has always constributed. Unions use the funds to buy company stocks, and reps sit on the board. Who owns Honda? The guys who've worked there, by and large.

    I bet there are a few GM execs shredding files right now, as packs of colleagues roam the halls in Detroit asking 'yeah! Just who DID kill the electric car?', in an outside voice, and not from a sense of curiousity only.
  10. Paul Bowler from Canberra, Australia writes: Maybe it's just me, but I can't get the latest GM numbers to add up! At end Mar 08, GM shares were about $25 (all figures $US). At the end of Jun 08, they were about $10. Now, GM reports that the loss per share for the 2nd quarter (end Mar08-end Jun08) was $27.33 per share! So, by my maths, the GM share price should be -$2.33 or thereabouts!! That is, GM shares should have negative value - at which point GM should be in Chapter 11, heading towards liquidation. The CFO says they have all this cash - but exactly what is it secured against? As a supplier to GM, would you accept any other terms than 'cash-on-the-nail' for any goods and services supplied? I would not!
  11. Silver Standard (Used to be gold) from Canada writes: This is not the unions problem, despite the so called 'fat' paychecks the cost is not anywhere that bad per car, especially after all the wage cuts. Its the market, people are out of money and GM is not making Fuel efficient enough cars PLUS do not think many people are not punishing them as well for leaving us behind. Many people see what the corporations and the government is doing.

    People cannot buy a car when their pay is cut in half or their making 8 to 15 dollar per hour in the 'new economy'. So don't be surprised if things get worst for these corporations, you cannot eliminate most of peoples spending money through wage cuts and inflation over 20 years and not face consequences. This is a dollar bubble popping as well along with a massive credit bubble that had its foundation started in the late 80's early 90's as the trade deals and Walmart really started to tear apart small towns and ship our jobs overseas.

    Chickens are coming home to roost for the 'new Economy' and all the 'race to the bottom' wages will have the effect most people with common sense knew it would 20 years ago. Soon people will have no choice but to see through the garbage that 'free trade' supporters have been spewing for years. The deals we are in are meant to do this, people need to wake up.
  12. K D from Canada writes: People who think GM cars are 'cheap and crappy' have not been to a dealership in 5 years. GM has some very nice cars and crossovers these days. There are still a few duds but even Honda has a couple of those.

    We just bought a Saturn Aura, absolutely beutiful car. Not another sedan on the market I would buy instead of it.
  13. F Johnson from Canada writes: Rusty Waters from Canada writes: The oil companies are ruining the economy and lives of thousands of workers. Billions of dollars are made in profit by the oil companies at the expense of massive numbers of hardworking individuals in the manufacturing industry.

    *****************************************************

    Rusty this may come as shock to you but the same 'hardworking individuals in the manufacturing industry' are responsible for high oil prices because of their purchase of gas guzzler vehicles.
  14. CallofDuty . from Toronto, Canada writes: How long can this go on before they close they're doors?
  15. Silver Standard (Used to be gold) from Canada writes: F Johnson

    Most of the gas markup comes from inflation, second would what you said. If it wasn't for the bad currency and spending gas would probably be only around 40 to 60 per barrel now. But we should have all the SUV's though..it doesn't help thats for sure.
  16. Darren X3 from Toronto, Canada writes: Charles Smith: 'Do not despair - the day of reckoning is coming for the oil companies. Demand for the Texas Tea is already starting to decline - this rate of decline will increase exponentially. 12 months from now oil may have dropped to record lows. '

    LOL! Charles Smith, you are a pretty funny guy. You don't have the SLIGHTEST idea what you're talking about, but you sure can tell some good jokes (unintentionally, though).
  17. Darren X3 from Toronto, Canada writes: 'People who think GM cars are 'cheap and crappy' have not been to a dealership in 5 years. GM has some very nice cars and crossovers these days. '

    I can't comment on their whole lineup but I concur. I rent cars frequently, and I liked the Pontiac Grand Prix and Chevy Malibu (surprisingly nice car, I thought), and just LOVED the Pontiac G6. I didn't want to give it up. I also rented a Camry and thought it was BOOOOORING! I don't know how these GM cars would hold up over 10 years, but they had a lot of curb appeal for me. The Chevy Cobalt is also a sharp looking car IMHO (for the price).
  18. William Gartner from Montreal, Canada writes: Good work Union people, you will soon make overblown demands in an empty building...
  19. Bob Smith from Calgary, Canada writes: IHDM is partially right though its not exactly 'union' wages, it's the legacy pension costs. GM underfunded their pension for years and when the SEC changed the rules in 2001, forcing pension deficits to be put as a liability on the balance sheet, GM started having to record $2000 per vehicle in expense. That's why they offer some pretty lucrative buyout packages... they're cheaper than funding the pension!
  20. Bob Smith from Calgary, Canada writes: And as for domestic cars, I think the new Dodge Challenger and Camaro coming out next year are pretty snazzy!
  21. Patrick P-A from Canada writes: Isn't it going to feel great when GM finally kicks the bucket? We'll all get to say 'I told you so!' with a feeling of satisfaction.

    The fact is, it won't be funny at all if GM closes shop. There's going to be A LOT of unemployed people. Many of whom who might be too old or unskilled to get a job in another field.
  22. Andrew S from Canada writes: GM should pack it in while they're still ahead. GM is a failed business. They make cars that people don't want.
  23. J F from Canada writes: Darren X

    Agree with you completely
    My wife has a 2006 Pontiac G6. It is a great car at a great price. Not one problem
    She loves it
    I have a 1999 Buick regal ( 10 years old )with 160,000 K on it. Still looks and rides like new. Not one bit of rust
    They make great cars
  24. J F from Canada writes: I want to have Buzz Hargroves love child, I tried for Syd Ryan but he's infertile.
  25. B T from Toronto, Canada writes: IHateDavid Miller from Toronto, Canada writes: While some of GM's problems are due to the fact they don't make cars that any educated Canadian would buy...the bulk of their problem is due to the fat union contracts
    ___

    Love your name and agree with you very much!! European Countries have had very high gas prices for years, we have been lagging. So if you think of it between domestic cars, politians, oil companies...if one goes down they all do. Why do you think Miller-ites always cover the TTC unions and Dalton covers the auto unions.. the unions put money in their campaigns and in return cover them and the oil companies work with the car companies to ensure their product is always in demand. very bad circle but the worst of it... is we fell for it and have become accustomed to this lifestyle.
  26. Rob M from Canada writes: K D

    I couldnt agree with you more.

    The complete ignorance and attitude expressed by the common consumer (Rob whatever who posted further up.) Is the result of past products that were horrible.

    GM's current product lineup with a few exceptions is very good. Not only that but their quality scores are very good as well.

    GM has many problems, consumer perception however is one of the largest.

    Go test drive a camry and the new malibu. I believe you will come away very suprised.

    This coming from a toyota owner.
  27. Alan Wayne Scott from Toronto, Canada writes: The evaporation of the private truck and SUV market is hopefully predicated on more than just rising petroleum costs.

    The domestic auto industry's idiotic, 'bigger is better' vehicle designs were doomed to eventual market failure from the start. If otherwise rational consumers hadn't been purposefully conned into desiring 'too much vehicle' by GM and the rest of the North American-based manufacturers, the current consumer backlash and all its attendant economic ills could have been avoided entirely.

    Does anyone else remember the Cadillac Escalade ad which extolled the benefits of driving one of these unnecessarily eco-damaging, smog-spewing, 345 HP behemoths down to the 'corner coffee shop' for 'a caramel macchiato'?

    Despite public outcry, the ad ran repeatedly in the Globe and Mail in the spring of 2001.

    'Tis but corporate karma, eh?
  28. J F from Canada writes: Their are two different people going by JF.
    Im the one that owns the G6 and Regal.
    Because of my gender, I cannot have Buzzs love child
  29. J F from Canada writes: Jack Layton's moustache tickles.
  30. Randy D from Canada writes: The sheeple continuing to crap on GM vehicles don't have a clue what they are talking about. It became uncool over the years to own a north american vehicle and the chickens are now coming home to roost. Everybody is pointing the finger elsewhere but the fact remains everyone is at fault; yes, the unions have been WAAAAY overpaid for minimal education, management has been both incompetent and cowardly and the consumers, following the herd have refused to accept the improvements in North American products. Win the battle, lose the war everyone as our society hits the skids. Most left-wing Canuckistanis will delight in China, N Korea, etc. taking the lead.
  31. Trenton McLeod from Pickering, Canada writes:

    Don't believe a word of it, Buzz. This is little more than a capitalist plot to shore up GM's bargaining position. Well, Buzz before you sink into the sunset, how about one more universal day of protest. That's right, shut down the entire province. And given that you and McGuinty are buddies, I doubt he'll say a thing until you're well into your third week of labor unrest. And if you time it right, you might join Ontario's secondary and elementary public school teachers who want more than a 12% raise in salary over the next four years. They want the tax payers to continue paying for all of their teachers, duds and all, even though the province has lost 90 000 students since 2002.
  32. ali mansur from Etobicoke, Canada writes: A couple of things.

    (a) GM builds crap.

    (b) They had the edge on electric vehicles with the EV-1, but they decided to scrap them to support the Oil industry -- irony at its best.

    (c) Anyone buying GM stock at $10 per share is retarded. They lost $27 per share in the last three months alone. At that rate they'll be worth $-20 in December.

    (d) GM has large pension and similar liabilities that will be cancelled by bankrupcty and spin-offs.

    (e) Reread item (d), it implies they must sell all the good subsidiaries and then go bankrupt.
  33. Rob Davidson from Hanover, Canada writes: With the Malibu, GM is starting to get it. What part of the car do you most often look at? The interior. GM's refusal to create quality interiors in their smaller vehicles was a major error. As a GM family member I am eligible for a discount, but did not buy a Cobalt or other small GM car. Why? Because the interiors are cheap plastic. I asked the sales person, why does GM not put $1000 more into the interiors of their small cars? I was told that that's not what their customers want. I could have been one of those customers. I bought a Civic for $2000 more than I could have had a Cobalt.
  34. Jimmy K from Toronto, Canada writes: So much blame for the 'top floor' of GM. Well let me tell you how this works, it's really quite simple. One of GM's largest fixed costs are unions and massive benefits. No matter what they build, they gotta pay this. The only way they can mitigate this is buy selling expensive cars, thus BIG cars. Coincidentally, Americans were also in love with big cars for a decade, so GM went gung ho on SUV's. It was not a stupid business decision, it was a perfectly rational business decision, and made even more sense if you consider the fact that with GM's cost structure, they lose money on each and every small car they sell. Bottom line: Bigger cars mean paying for the worker is less the total cost of the car. Smaller car means paying the worker is more total cost of the car. Pay the worker too much based on what they contribute, and the small car loses money, whereas the big car just ekes out a small profit. So when Union people say that this is all managements fault and they had nothing to do with it and they weren't at all responsible for GM going only for the large car market, they are just being ignorant. GM hasn't been competitive in small cars for decades now, and still aren't, so with this new-normal on oil, I'd suggest no matter what they do, they are SCREWED. Oh, and the above posters are right, it's also very uncool to drive a GM (or a Ford, or a Chrysler).
  35. BC Refugee in AB from Canada writes: Darren X...I was with you until you said the Cobolt was good looking.......

    I'm a Toyota owner as well, and have rented Camry's and the new Malibu in the last while.....hands down the Malibu wins, with the one minor exception that you alluded to....the boring Camry will still be around in a decade, not sure about the Malibu. Vehicle reliability goes like this....both D3 and imports have about the same average reliability these days, but the difference is this: almost all Toyota/Honda vehicles will be rock solid for 250K.

    D3 vehicles on the other hand its a roll of the dice...my old man has put 350K on a Silverado and it still tows a 30' trailer every summer, but mine lasted 45K before falling apart and it was a daily driver. Sure, on average you get about 250 000 KM average, but that is made up of half super long-runners that go 300 KM and half that die at about 75K. That is what drives me to a boring Toyota, I know my odds are I'll get a vehicle that will last. The only D3 vehicle I'd look at right now would be a 3 year lease return that I could see the maintenance records and judge if it was built for a long life or not.

    In 5-8 yrs if GM shows some long term reliability numbers on their new vehicles like the Malibu I'll go back to a D3 showroom...until now I'll stick to Toyota / Honda. Of course, in the past year or so Toyota has had some big slips, and if that continues it might be Honda for me...right now I'm driving a 5 yr old built in Japan 4Runner, I'd love a new Tundra but they won't option it here for me the way I want and their reliability numbers suck.
  36. puddin and pie from Canada writes: Rob Davidson from Hanover, agreed. Honda Accord has a nice plastic interior, though my Ford pickup plastic interior is ,,well....you know.
  37. J F from Canada writes: My Pontiac G6 was a gift from Syd Ryan following our illicet affair......
  38. Ray Crawford from Toronto, Canada writes: Would somebody out there in cyberspace please explain in a few sentences -without the usual anti-union rant- how GM and Ford went from the top of the heap to near the bottom in just a couple of decades. What is the root cause: a senior management problem, a marketing problem, a design problem, a quality control problem ? Why do the Asian car manufacturers consistently make high annual profits? yeah, I know they're not unionized, but there's something else going on to make them formidable competitors.
  39. Darren X3 from Toronto, Canada writes: 'The domestic auto industry's idiotic, 'bigger is better' vehicle designs were doomed to eventual market failure from the start. '

    Ahem... Toyota builds the Prius, but they ALSO build the Sequoia, which is about as big as its namesake.
  40. w b from Canada writes: Hello,
    JF from Canada, I think the Regal is one of the only long lasting cars the GM has built. I hate the company and their cars but I will give you that one. I do have to warn you though, your wifes car is only a few years old....The G6 is no Regal, and like most GM (American) cars it will soon start to cause you trouble. I hope it does not, I honestly hope that GM turns things around for the sake of the common people who work for them and need a job, but I would not bet my smelly sandals on it.

    I saw a post about stock prices, we should wait until the stock is at $1 a share and buy, or see what it is at when they come out of bankruptcy...The governments have thrown money at them and will continue, also Mcain in the states has stated that he will help make the electric car work ...(not that I trust politicians) but that perception may help.

    I feel for all the poor workers who have lost their jobs due to being fooled by a bad union and dumb American CEO's
  41. Hugo Hall from Calgary, Canada writes: ___________________________________________________________ Rob M from Canada writes: K D I couldnt agree with you more. The complete ignorance and attitude expressed by the common consumer (Rob whatever who posted further up.) Is the result of past products that were horrible. GM's current product lineup with a few exceptions is very good. Not only that but their quality scores are very good as well. GM has many problems, consumer perception however is one of the largest. Go test drive a camry and the new malibu. I believe you will come away very suprised. This coming from a toyota owner. ___________________________________________________________ In some of the hottest segments in the industry, however, GM products are lacking. Consider, for example, the Chevy Aveo5, which retails for about $13,000. For only $200 more you could buy a Toyota Yaris, and $600 more gets you a Nissan Versa, a car which is light years better in every measure (fuel economy, cargo space, horsepower, build quality, etc.). Considering the Aveo is one of the smallest cars available on the market, pretty sad that it gets the worst fuel economy of the compact hatchbacks - less than 30 mpg combined fuel economy. The same applies to the Cobalt and the Pontiac G5, pretty average compact cars which are marginally cheaper than the Civic or Sentra, but more than a Corolla or Versa sedan. People may be able to buy a Silverado for less than a Tundra or Titan, and get a darn good truck in the process, but that's not where the market is. The problem with GM, is that in the hottest segments - fuel efficient, compact vehicles - their products just aren't as good as the Japanese ones(in terms of performance, styling and quality ratings) and in spite of that, they're just as expensive. There are, of course, notable exceptions - Vibe and Astra come to mind - but most of GM's car lineup doesn't have much going for it.
  42. Darren X3 from Toronto, Canada writes: BC Refuge: 'In 5-8 yrs if GM shows some long term reliability numbers on their new vehicles like the Malibu I'll go back to a D3 showroom...until now I'll stick to Toyota / Honda.'

    Yep. I'm still driving a 92 Honda Civic, 300k on it, no major work on the original engine (which still runs like a Swiss watch), original clutch and transmission, etc. I don't drive much, so I expect to get another 10 years from it. I think you are right on the 'hit and miss' nature of domestics... a lot of people I know have real horror stories (multiple engine/transmission failures, etc). Bad press like that can last for decades.
  43. Jimmy K from Toronto, Canada writes: Ray, I'll take astab at that. First, when they used to rule the roost, companies like GM set up many many brands (which still exist today) so as you got wealthier or poorer, you could still stay with the same parent company, GM. Most people bought cars in the more practical, cheaper lines, Pontiac, Chevrolet, etc. As people got more and more wealthy in North America, one would think they would start to graduate to the more expensive lines, BUT that didn't work, because yes, they had a big quality control problem. GM's were seen as Lemons. They are the new Hyundai Pony. Why pay such a high premium for a car that is a lemon? At the same time, the Asian manufacturers showed up, and kept it simple. Two brands. One upper end, one really upper end. The cars were boring, plain (and still are) but they worked. The entire culture of those companies was the relentless pursuit of quality in their vehicles. They didn't add extra features, because that means more problems. They kept the basic vehicle plain, and they kept the basic parts running like clockwork. People started to pay for that with their expanded paycheques, whereas the only area where the D3 could not compete was in the cheapo car market. Now we have a situation where if you slap a Toyota or Honda logo on a car, you can charge 50% more than what D3 could charge for the same car in terms of features, because most people just assume that you pay extra for the reliability, whereas for the D3 they need to throw in other stuff 'for free' in order to make up for the percieved lack ofreliability. So to summarize, it was everything. Quality control was bad, marketing was bad, and upper management obviously didn't fix it which is their job, so they are bad too. Anyway that's my take on the sit.
  44. Alan Wayne Scott from Toronto, Canada writes: Yo Darren X3, Thank you for your response and I agree with you that many overseas-based auto manufacturers' SUV designs are inded 'idiotic', too.

    I had limited my comments to the North American industry as that is what the original article seems to focus on.

    And by the way, Happy 'Summer Driving Season' to all here who have given this issue so much thought. Back in my day, we just called it 'summer'.
  45. BC Refugee in AB from Canada writes: Ray, it's a combination of things. They did not keep up with the trends in vehicles over they years or stuck with some trends too long while ignoring others (D3 trucks have a rep as rock solid..their cars suck because they have not invested the money in their design). Add to that the fact that when the renewed a design all they did was add some pretty sheet metal and dash pieces to an existing design. The Cobolt/Cavalier is a classic example. The so-called new models that came out every few years was built on the same foundation of suspension, engine, etc. They did not refine and improve with each generation as the imports did. Instead of continuous improvement they waited 20 years at a time and tried to do a massive leap forward on technology, and usually fell on their face.

    Combine that with high wages in their plants, poor employee engagement and commitment to making sure every vehicle was built perfect (much of that is in the past now in most of their plants...but memories are long). Everyone remembers the NFL player from the 80-s bragging about how him and his friends use to hang bolts from strings inside the doors of cars they worked on during summer jobs at a GM factory.....then they had a rash of complaints about noisy interiors.

    But here is the biggest kicker...the bean counters and artistic designers run the show at the D3, while the engineers run the show at the imports. The end result is boring but bullet proof vehicles vs. beautiful works of art that won't last more than 3 years....one of the guys on here who works for the D3 will tell you a story about how door hinges are designed at Dodge vs. Honda I think it is.
  46. Gardiner Westbound from Canada writes: . . Decades of producing atrocious vehicles and maltreating customers have finally caught up with the Detroit-3. Sales have collapsed with ruinous financial consequences. Chrysler’s demise is near, Ford is circling the bowl, and GM may be bust within the year. A new domestic car can sometimes be had for less than a late model used one. Parts and warranty repairs for a failed brand could be problematic. Plummeting resale values yield a significant benefit for the used car buyer. A three or four year old domestic with factory warranty remaining may be an unbeatable value. .
  47. David F from Richmond Hill, Canada writes: Here's the positive portion of the article:

    'GM said its revenues outside North America rose by $1.7-billion to $20.8-billion in the quarter, but those gains were more than offset by losses in North America, where high gas prices and the weak economy have wreaked havoc on the auto industry.'

    GM is doing something right in the UK and Europe. High gas prices there won't lead to a decline in Vauxhall or Opel sales. Why? GM's European vehicles are no more gas-guzzling than the others.

    As much as I believe in the market deciding what will be built, I think its time for GM to stop building large numbers of pickups and SUV's that people don't really need. If the supply isn't there maybe the demand will change.
  48. J F from Canada writes: w b
    With the great success I have had with 2 Regals and a Pontiac 6000,
    I did not hesitate for a minute in buying the G6 ,and I hope, and I feel confident in 10 years it will still be a good car. I am prepared to see that through.
    GM makes great midsize cars. We almost bought an Allure , which I think is one of the best values out there ,but she wanted something a bit more sporty looking this time
    GM does have a problem with their small car lineup though. Someone above metioned the GM Aveo ( built in Korea I believe ). It is a piece of junk and I wouldn't touch it.
    I hope that GM does do better in the small car segment and I feel they will.
    Their luxury cars and midsize models are getting to the top, if not already there , and I hope they repeat that in the small car segment as well
  49. Crusty Curmudgeon from Ottawa, Canada writes:

    To IHateDavid Miller (and a few of you union bashers):

    I do agree that benefit payouts are greater for North American manufacturers than they are for Honda / Toyota, but that is because of the hiring practices of the latter, who built their factories later and made it a point to hire younger (healthier) workers. Most of the major companies have self funding benefit plans.

    As for the quality -- I bought a new Malibu -- had nothing but trouble with the electrical system. I have bought a 3 year old Honda with 100K -- no problems for last 3 years.

    My son has a 2003 Malibu -- 2 head gaskets later -- still leaking oil.

    My daughter has had a Toyota for 6 years -- not one problem.

    Guess what I am not going to buy next.

    Why is NO ONE looking at executive salaries as an issue --- they are the ones that are being over-compensated for making horrendous mistakes in judgement.
  50. w b from Canada writes: K D from Canada writes: People

    'We just bought a Saturn Aura, absolutely beutiful car. Not another sedan on the market I would buy instead of it. '

    ______________________________________________________

    Hello,
    For those who just bought a new car from an American Car Company, and who know doubt find them good looking and run nice now, all I have to say is WAIT and SAVE your money for problems as you build milage. You have fallen for the ART of the car not the MECHANICAL aspect. As somebody posted, AMERICAN cars ARTISTS AND BEAN COUNTERS are in control, but ASIAN CARS Engineers are in control.

    New AMERICAN cars are short term joyrides that look good but cost you. Buy a painting instead.
  51. Rob F from T.O, Canada writes: What ever the reasons... Expensive Labour.. Poor Management... bad design.... Poor public perception of their quality... GM is going down...

    If you are an employee and have been offered a package I suggest you take it... Employees are the last creditor to be paid when a company declares bankruptcy...
  52. all good from Quibekistan, Canada writes: Buick regal 1996 over 200000 still running excelent.Did not had any major problems, I am happy the car next will be still GM.I hope that until next year when \i plan my purchase they will have a Buick that takes a bit less gas.
  53. Keep It Real from Canada writes: The big 3 car companies just promotes the 'good looks' and feel of their cars without substance and quality.

    Ever notices their car commercials, all about feelings and crap... 'Buy a Chevy, and be part of the family'.. blah.. blah... 'Ford is Job One'.... 'Pontiacs.. built for drivers!'...

    Just all talk and fluff!

    I agree with 'w b''s comments:
    'For those who just bought a new car from an American Car Company, and who know doubt find them good looking and run nice now, all I have to say is WAIT and SAVE your money for problems as you build milage. You have fallen for the ART of the car not the MECHANICAL aspect. As somebody posted, AMERICAN cars ARTISTS AND BEAN COUNTERS are in control, but ASIAN CARS Engineers are in control.

    New AMERICAN cars are short term joyrides that look good but cost you. Buy a painting instead.'
  54. David F from Richmond Hill, Canada writes: I wouldn't want to be Jack Layton or Stephane Dion right now. How will both of them get the autoworkers' vote and the environmentalists' at the same time? No wonder there won't be an election until 2009.

    As for Americans and Canadians rioting, they won't riot, they'll just buy smaller cars. There won't be any glorious revolution anytime soon.
  55. I_Hate_David Miller from Toronto, Canada writes: B T from Toronto...where have you been all my life!

    I have vowed to never own a North American Car. My parents have had nothing but problems with all of their cars (Chrysler, Buick, and Cheverolet), yet all of the vehicles I've owned in the past (Jetta, Toyota Tacoma) have had no major problems only routine upkeep so much so that when I needed a new car this year I didn't even consider anything that wasn't from Germany or Japan...ended up with an Infiniti and man is it a great car.
  56. L K from Canada writes: I remember when I was a young man taking my Chev into the dealership for some minor repairs. I was treated like garbage by the service manager and the prices were rediculously high. I had the car in numerous times to get the same problem fixed which they seemed unable to manage.

    This type of experience has been repeated in various GM dealers over the years. I will never buy an American made care again after now owning a number of Honda's, Acuras and now a Volvo.

    The US manufactures treat you like you owe them something, the vehicles aren't styled anywhere as well as the Japenese or European cars and the quality is inferior. I have to drive american made vehicles at work so I do have a current comparison against my Volvo.

    Maybe if one or two of the big three goes under the US manufacturers will wake up and smell the coffee.

    The thing that really gets me though is the union members sense of intitlement. Bad Management plus too powerful unions equals lots of unemployed autoworkers.
  57. David F from Richmond Hill, Canada writes: No-one's mentioned the Saturn Vue yet. Not only is it functional and relatively small, it is also one of only three family-friendly vehicles available in Canada with a manual transmission that I'm aware of, the others being the Mazda 5 and the Subaru Forester.

    With a greater emphasis on vehicles like the Vue, GM could take some leadership on the size of vehicles, but also on the transmissions. We don't have to drive automatic Navigators and F-150's. Smaller manual vehicles will save gas and more importantly, get us off the phone while we're drinking Timmies and causing accidents.

    This situation will either ultimately change North American drivers' mentalities or be a temporary setback before North Americans retreat back to their V8's forever.
  58. Hugo Hall from Calgary, Canada writes: Re: the unions, I don't consider it 'union bashing' to call into question some of the contracts that were signed over the years...clearly they were not fiscally prudent or sustainable over the long term. Although, it always comes down to the fact that if its a bad contract, it's just as much management's fault for agreeing to it.

    Perhaps the future of North American car makers should take a page from companies such as Westjet, in which employees are given an incentive to excel through profit-sharing. Certainly seems to be helping them do well, in contrast to the typical 'union and management' structure at rival Air Canada.

    Re: quality cars, seems like there are a lot of Buick fans here among the GM faithful. I've heard generally good things about Buick's reliability, but it comes down to the fact that us in the under-60 age category want good quality cars too.
  59. Angry West Coast Canuck from Canada writes: 'slow sales and labour problems'? Could it not possibly be that GM hasn't come up with a decent car design in years, simply being content to copy others? Or that they completely failed to see, yet again, that smaller cars were becoming more popular? Or even that they're sitting on the patents for proven battery technology for plug-in cars (NiMH) and not DOING anything with it other than denying others the use of this technology until the patents run out, while others experiment with lithium-ion and other unproven (long term) battery tech for cars? (see http://www.ev1.org for more details) How about putting the blame where it lies: utterly incompetent management that doesn't have any vision, doesn't have any idea of who their customers are, and still thinks they're in the 1980's. Easier to blame it on the guy bolting the tires to the car though. Yeah, always is.
  60. ali mansur from Etobicoke, Canada writes: Why should I reward a companies that demonstrate they are willing to put out shoddy product and not back it up? Some say their quality has improved, but I find it questionable. Regardless, it is moot

    If you could switch from Bell, Rogers or Telus to a new phone/mobile/cable company that respected you, wouldn't you pay a little more and NEVER EVER go back, no matter how much the old guys improved? That's exactly right.
  61. Nn Chi from Burnaby, Canada writes: Na..na..na..na..hey..hey..goodbye GM. Your company philosophy has failed. The union is draining you dry. The cars you make are not desirable. Even if they are 'well-built', the consumer perception of your cars are comparable to Hyundais. They are cheaply made. Ridiculously low resell value, if you can get anyone to buy it. Absolutely poor quality. Wouldn't take one if someone gave me one. The top people are making excessive wages. The workers are making excessive wages and benefits. Your pension fund will dry up. When times were good, things were good. When times are bad, it's really bad. GM made $$$ selling SUVs and where did that money go? Not to R&D. Not to the future. But to the pockets of workers and managers. How does a business lose $15 Billion?? Time to read the book on 'How to Run a Sucessful Business', notably chapter 11, Bankruptcy. Solutions? Invest in fuel efficient cars. Remove the union wages and demands. Cut back salaries of overpaid execs. Send all Hummers and SUVs to Venezuela, Nigeria and Saudi Arabia where they have oil. Get responsible management to settle the 'shoebox' accounting at GM. Nobody knows what the hell the other departments are doing. They think they have $$$ to burn. All other car companies are suffering as well but no where near the catastrophic losses at GM, and at Ford. Don't expect government to help, they have their own problems. You are a 'private' business and should not get one damn cent of the taxpayer's money to bail you out of your manure. Does this sound like GM bashing or what? It isn't, it's just the truth. Long live all other automobile companies, except for the prehistoric monolith previously known as GM!
  62. J F from Canada writes: There are horror stories about all cars, whether German, Japanese,
    Korean or American. I do not include British, as every car they ever made was a horror.
    There is a lot of GM bashing going on and a lot of it is justified. However I will continue to buy their product based on my experience.
    The bottom line is however, how and why did they get to this point .
    We all have our ideas : high wages, poor design, poor management,
    being penny wise and pound foolish , poor customer service at the dealer level etc etc etc.
    But it is important for everyone ,including the Toyota lovers, that they survive and prosper. Its thousand of jobs in our commuities, tax revenues, supply industries and a lot more that is at stake.
    I'm pulling for them in spite of their real problems ,or percieved ones
  63. Harbinger from Out West from Canada writes: Gee whiz! In my day, you young whippersnappers, we used to say a car is an extension of your personality. Lotsa mediocre personalities out there these days. Gosh!
  64. Paul G from Toronto, Canada writes: The electric car is coming...

    www.teslamotors.com

    ...
  65. Jimmy K from Toronto, Canada writes: J F, I'm pulling for them too, but not with my own wallet. Don't get me wrong, they contribute a lot to this province and country so it's not a good thing if they go under, I'm just saying that with the types of decisions they have made, it's hard to see how they won't.

    And you are right, everyone does have horror stories for certain cars, but I don't think the perception that all D3's are lemons just came out of nowhere - there IS some justification for it. Perhaps they have finally fixed that problem, but now they need to deal with the stain that years of poor quality control have left smeared on their brand. Personally, I can say that I am not going to buy a D3 ever again until I am 100% sure that they are up to the level of the imports. I just don't have the time, effort, energy, or knowhow to deal with a car that routinely breaks down every couple months.
  66. BC Refugee in AB from Canada writes: Don't get me wrong, I want and know we need GM to survive, heck my dad worked for dealership for 20 years back a few years, but I'm not going to take the financial risk on their vehicles until they prove their worth. One of the GM's my dad had caused him so many troubles he almost switched from GM's and you know what his comment was.....he could not believe a GM product could let a customer down like that!!!
  67. Bosco . from Canada writes: Maybe the US carmakers will start paying attention to what the consumer want's. An affordable, reliable stylish car that gets decent gas miliage.

    Some how I think its too late for the big 3, but the Japenese & Europeans have it right.

    You just gotta shake your head that the guys running GM didn't see this coming, how much were they getting paid for their expertese?

    And then you have Buzz Hargrove, the unions have done as much damage to the auto industry as bad management. They priced themselves right out of a job.
  68. alex just a canadian from Canada writes: Too many dealers, too many brands, too same vehicles with different names. Why can they make a profit in Europe and not here. Maybe stop trying to stuff ugly battle boats down ourthroats or a car for every individual. Make cars that people want, YOU GOT IT RIGHT IN EUROPE!!! dump your NA team and get the European team here because they seem to be doing something right.
  69. J F from Canada writes: Jimmy K
    When you say the D3 car breaks down every couple of months, I don't think you believe that for a moment, and you know that is not the case at all. We all add a bit of dressing to the side of the argument we take.
    There is a lot of justification for the bad image they have, and their brands have been stained over the years. But again I have had no problems with the models I have owned
    Their quality is getting better and with some models it is tops. I hope that carries over to all their present and future lineups , and I believe they will survive.
    Even if their quality wasn't tops , I would still buy for a lot of reasons
  70. D BARTA from Canada writes: -

    It's too bad the Big 3 spent all their profits on building up their business offshore and forgot to improve their domestic products.

    Now they have to play catch up, which would be easier if they had not forgotten that it is easier to keep a reputation than it is to regain it.......

    -
  71. George Levecque from Fergus, Ontario, Canada writes: Despite what a earlier poster said, Nissan does not make Vehicles in Canada only Honda and Toyota have invested a lot of Money in Canada, also Nissan is one of the Companies along with Honda that wont let you buy Vehicles in the USA and bring them back to Canada, they along with others are in my bad books for that reason, Honda does make good vehicles though.
    Now GM has had many problems with most of there output over the years, take the 2006 Malibu with 70,000 kms on it, the Tie Rods are gone and of course it was over the older warranty for that year, the only way my friend was able to have them repaired was to take GM to Small Claims Court!
    People please check out the April 2008 issue of Consumer Reports and you will see the reliability of GM vehicles! almost on the bottom next to Suzuki and Chrysler-Cerberus
  72. The Natrix from Toronto, Canada writes: Alot of ppl here do not seem to understand the fact that the Union protested and essentially blocked against any sort of move by the company, and applied political pressure on congress against any sort of move against Profitable Trucks, as that would have put the company in a better negotiating position due to leaner profits.

    Secondly, its always funny to read about these automotive companies reporting 'One Time' Expenses every quarter, when it happens every time.
  73. R M from Canada writes: $15.5-billion in the second quarter ?? That just can't be true. Why every second commercial on TV these days shows the Chevy Silverado, Truck of the year, very gas friendly and surely a big winner in the GM stables. The Silveradao EPA rated for a whopping 14MPG and joins its other stable mates the Avalanche (13MPG) Eqiinox (18 MPG) and Suburban ( 14MPG) Thing is I didn't see them at the stable I saw them all sitting at the dealership's lot. Row upon row upon row.
  74. Hugo Hall from Calgary, Canada writes: ___________________________________________________________ Bosco . from Canada writes: Maybe the US carmakers will start paying attention to what the consumer want's. An affordable, reliable stylish car that gets decent gas miliage. ___________________________________________________________ Exactly! All 3 North American auto makers are behind the curve here. I want a fuel efficient car, but that doesn't mean I want to drive a butt-ugly Aveo or a bland Cobalt or Focus. And Chrysler is so truck-focused that they even try to make their 'economy' cars look like SUVs (Caliber, Patriot, Compass). And rather than recycling ideas from the '60s and '70s with new interpretations of the Camaro and Charger, why can't they make stylish, contemporary sedans like the Nissan Maxima and Altima, Mitsubishi Lancer, Honda Accord, or Mazda 3 and 6? GM can do it - the Astra looks great, and the Vibe is a winner - but too often their small cars are either boring, ugly, mediocre in performance or all of the above. One really gets the feeling here that the Big 3 spend a lot of time designing and building excellent trucks and SUVs, but their cars are an afterthought. And they'll have to do better than rebadged Daewoos to generate consumer interest in what is becoming the most important segment of the car industry.
  75. boz dobbs from toronto, Canada writes: GM is in dire need of a world class 20,000 dollar car,Honda has the Civic and Toyota has the Corolla,but it,s tough to fight the delight of a 10,000 buck profit when you sell a huge SUV which has been keeping GM management and workers afloat this past decade.
  76. Billy Fred from Windsor, Canada writes: Most of you who drive Honda, Toyota mostly do so because it is not fashionalble to drive a north american automobile. It has nothing to do with quality. Honda and Toyota make good cars as do GM and Ford.
  77. Curious George from Saskatoon, Canada writes: I'm amazed at the union basing that goes on here. At least one poster has pointed out that the executive salaries are far more to blame. When your 'leaders' (who have led the D3 towards oblivion) take a million per year plus bonuses they set an example....greed. Someone who actually expends calories at work is usually undervalued compared to the suits.

    The overall mess in the North American economy has not been caused by wage earners. They may be fooled into subprime mortgages or credit cards that they can't really afford but the suits who authorize that sort of stupidity should be first to walk the plank.
  78. Bosco . from Canada writes: Billy Fred from Windsor, Canada writes: Most of you who drive Honda, Toyota mostly do so because it is not fashionalble to drive a north american automobile. It has nothing to do with quality. Honda and Toyota make good cars as do GM and Ford.
    ______________

    I disagree, I drive a volvo because they stand behind their product. The base warranty is 160K or 10 years. I never get a hassle when I need to have warranty work done, which is rare.

    The car is solid and will outlast anything the american's are building.
  79. BC Refugee in AB from Canada writes: The bad news for Canada is yet to come. I can guarantee that any US gov't bailout will have a clause in it that all vehicles need to be manufactured in the US within X number of years, particularly if Obama get's in with his protectionist thinking.
  80. Hugo Hall from Calgary, Canada writes:
    __________________________________________________________
    Billy Fred from Windsor, Canada writes: Most of you who drive Honda, Toyota mostly do so because it is not fashionalble to drive a north american automobile. It has nothing to do with quality. Honda and Toyota make good cars as do GM and Ford.
    __________________________________________________________

    It is true that Ford makes good cars, but last I checked, they have ONE economy car, the Focus, which IS a good car, but still inferior to the European version of the Focus, and they don't even make hatchback or wagon versions any more. I do quite like the Fusion though, but again not what I would call an economy car. GM? Other than bringing subpar Daewoo retreads to the North American marketplace, they have a few decent vehicle selections, but overall a decidedly mixed bag. And really, with better quality ratings overall, more contemporary modern designs and higher resale values for about the same price as a domestic, why wouldn't people buy an import?
  81. J F from Canada writes: The real issue is not the Canadian Union , nor the UAW in the US.
    GM and Ford have the best engineers in the world, and have been at the forefront of new car technology forever ,along with the Germans, and recently the Japanese.

    The problem lies only in the board rooms of GM, Ford ,and Chrysler.
    They refuse to believe, that people below are capable of making better decisions than they can. Decision making goes from the top down , and suggestions from the lower ranks upward are dismissed.
    I bet the engineers at GM have to bite their lip every day.

    Of all the complaints I hear about GM, there is one common thread.
    GASKETS. Fire the VP of Gaskets
  82. Bosco . from Canada writes: J F from Canada writes: The real issue is not the Canadian Union , nor the UAW in the US.
    GM and Ford have the best engineers in the world, and have been at the forefront of new car technology forever ,along with the Germans, and recently the Japanese.

    The problem lies only in the board rooms of GM, Ford ,and Chrysler.
    They refuse to believe, that people below are capable of making better decisions than they can. Decision making goes from the top down , and suggestions from the lower ranks upward are dismissed.
    I bet the engineers at GM have to bite their lip every day.

    Of all the complaints I hear about GM, there is one common thread.
    GASKETS. Fire the VP of Gaskets
    ____________
    You don't think the unions have some responsibilty for the downfall of the big 3. If unskilled labour was getting paid $20/hour instead of $40/hour maybe GM could sell there cars for what they are worth.
  83. J F from Canada writes: BC Refugee
    Don't get us going on Obama !!
    If you have been following him for the past couple of weeks , its apparent he is a complete Wing Nut.
    His head is now the size of a Pumpkin. He doesn't even want to be Presidentt of the US anymore. He has bigger ambitions. President of the World.
    He needs to go into therapy for a month. He's lost it
  84. J F from Canada writes: Bosco
    Labour rates are only one aspect of the eq