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Chrysler Canada seeks $1-billion

GREG KEENAN and SHAWN MCCARTHY AND MURRAY CAMPBELL

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 12:06 PM EST 21/11/08

First of Detroit Three to specify dollar amount for aid has not said how governments should split help; Throne Speech vague emergency backing ...Read the full article

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  1. Winston Smith from Canada writes: Throne speech is vague? Harper rules on the fly. That's nothing new. There was no platform for the election and there is no plan now.
  2. Andrei Popov from NYC, United States writes:
    NO TAXPAYER MONEY...

    If they can't manage their own money, what do you think the'll do with ours...
  3. K. Wilson from Sooke, Canada writes: I have an idea:
    Why don't the oil companies- who have made obscene amounts of profits on the product that they sell, which goes into the product that the car companies make- spend a little of their billions to bail out the companies they need to perpetuate the cycle.

    Just seems like a logical plan.
  4. Darren Moore from Belleville, Canada writes: "Chrysler Canada spokeswoman Mary Gauthier would not comment on the company's $1-billion request to the Canadian governments."

    They'll unabashedly ask us - you and me - for money, but they won't talk to the press about it? Disgusting.

    After years of fiscal mismanagement, a narrow-minded approach to the product line and the future of the industry, and little or no economic foresight, not to mention a product than runs on a dwindling resource, these people have the gall to ask the taxpayer to support them? What ever happened to the free market? Only touted when you're on top, eh?

    Suddenly the dinosaurs are teetering, and they expect us to support them. I for one hope they are allowed to go extinct. Let's see what nimble, adaptive and green industry replaces them. That, or we nationalize them like the US did the banks. Then you and I own them, and the electric car might actually have a chance.

    And don't be fooled - the CEOs of the Detroit Three flew to Washington in private jets at massive expense. GM itself owns eight corporate jets at a price take of $36 million each. And these are the people begging at the public coffers? I'm sorry, filthy-rich big wigs, but when you start flying coach to ask for our money, I'll start considering bailing out an industry that needs to go anyway.

    And of course don't forgot, this isn't even the tip of the iceberg. We're headed for big trouble folks - for capitalism. We may be witnessing the end of 'economy' as we know it. But huzzah for the shopkeep - the time's come for this ending. It hasn't worked, it isn't working, and it's about time we based our civilization on more than just greed.

    Good riddance to bad rubbish - as long as we don't end up buying it.
  5. Billy Bob from Saskatchewan from Canada writes: Welcome to Saskatchewan circa 1990's.

    I don't feel a bit sorry for them. Not one bit.
  6. alex mackay from Vancouver, Canada writes: These are the last people on the planet we should be giving tax dollars to. I wouldnt trust them to run a p*ss-up in a brewery.
  7. S G from Canada writes: Notice they feds throw in "and the aerospace industry".......once again have to always throw Quebec a bone whether they need it or not......
  8. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: I agree with Andrei Popov from NYC, United States.

    Not a dime of taxpayer money should be wasted here ...

    The idea of Oil companies (currently making record profits and long time beneficiaries of an unproductive and inefficient auto industry) bailing out the auto industry is certainly an intriguing thought though...

    Slainte
  9. jake and pete from Canada writes: Please don't bring Cummunism to Canada. Get Walmart to make cars.

    Next read the story on Ontario teachers contract. Do they live on our same planet?
  10. Prairie Boy from Canada writes: Product not selling, plants not profitable, overcapacity for the market and high labour cost and bennies. A bailout out is 6 months from now they are back. Chapter 11 and they HAVE to find solutions to the problems and it isn't socialism. Are we going to be forced to buy Canadian Ladas so union members have perks?
  11. Dean the machine from anywhere, Canada writes: Give Zenn Motor Company all the money, at least they'll build cars people will want.
  12. aloysuis paczjoskteyochuk from Canada writes: I thought the purpose of selling shares in a company was to raise capital so why don't these corporations just issue more shares than the people who wish to bail them out have full freedom to do so and make a profit if the companies rebound.
  13. p m from Canada writes: i don't hear any words about auto executives taking substantial pay cuts or the auto unions reducing their hourly rates and benefits..

    If anyone thinks that taxpayer dollars should go to these big spenders then this country is in REALLY bad shape!!

    the problem is that the vehicles these guys try to flog to us aren't as good as the foreign imports..

    we don't ride horses anymore either!! time to move on!! bye bye!!
  14. Josh S from Vancouver, Canada writes: I'd hate to see our NA auto companies go out of business, but dam it they stopped making a car for us several years ago.
    We've used Chrysler cars since 1980, but see nothing in their car line for us since the early 90s.
    They got totally hooked on trucks and very large cars (the 300), even their recent fuel efficient cars (or are they trucks) look like trucks.

    So why should my taxes go to support a company not making a product I want.

    I have an alternate, both Toyota and Nissan have a product that would suit my needs.
  15. D JL from Canada writes: The Can. Gov. is going to have to put up $$$ for the auto industry. This is not in doubt. But how much and with what strings....Well, I haven't a clue. BUT....it has to fit into what ever the USofA does.

    My understanding is that about 25% of N. American auto production is done in Canada. So I think, with provisions, Can should have ot put up 20-25% of the bailout, if required.

    All you nay sayers... Lose GM, Ford, & or Chrysler. We face the collapse of the parts industry. Which may impact Honda, etc in NA. Which is another batch of jobs.

    If you disagree with the support to the auto industry, then give us your solution to the job loses, bankruptcies, the parts industry failures. Let's hear your wisdom!!! Or are you jusoing to say what everyone else hase said. They didn't change, so they get what they deserve....
  16. aloysuis paczjoskteyochuk from Canada writes: I have to agree with Josh those newer Chrysler cars look like some kind of farm equipment.
  17. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: p m from Canada :

    Yes, it might be slightly easier to swallow handing over tax dollars here if there were any signs or markers of cost containment, efficiency and productivity from these auto makers...

    However, I agree completely with your 1:01 AM post...

    There's really not much evidence of anything like that yet.

    Slainte
  18. A Happier Place from Canada writes: No taxpayer bailout to the auto industry! The auto industry is a dinosaur, especially as represented by the Detroit Big 3, and it will become extinct on its own, regardless of the financial crisis.

    Invest the billion dollars in public transit projects and retrain / hire the unemployed autoworkers to do it!
  19. Robert Bland from Calgary, Canada writes:
    First, it was the banks.
    Next, the insurance companies.
    Next, the corporate pension industry.
    Next, the automobile companies.
    Next, the aerospace industry (Bombardier).

    Who's next? When or where does it all stop?

    Meanwhile, tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands!) of average Canadians will be told to suck it up when it comes to house prices collapsing, their RRSP's being decimated, and their jobs disappearing.
  20. Ed Long from Canada writes: The throne speech was purposely vague to await the American action.

    AND, as just reported in Reuters the chance of the $25 Billion bail-out passing the Senate before week's end is now slim.

    Billy Bob .... I keep saying to people here on the West Coast that the situation feels like Sask. in the early 90's .... survival. They don't get it.

    Glad to see you're running a surplus ... Sask. deserves it. And Brad Wall says he has no problem sending equalization money to Ontario.

    Ohhhh ..... the irony. Many a Depression survivor will have a comment on that one. My father is one and his only comment was, "to hell with them ... they foreclosed on our farms in the 30's" ....
  21. James Hurstle from Victoria, Canada writes: Hmmmm, seeing those yahoo's flying in on the lear jets in the USA begging for money is reason to believe that these people have not changed and have no desire to.

    I hope these companies get no money whatsoever. People who lose their jobs can blame the greedy fat boys/girls at the top.

    Change has to start at the top!
  22. Bert Russell Paradox, BC from Canada writes:

    When one gets a loan, then put up collateral to cover the loan. Assets which will be forfeit if within a set period of time the loan is not paid back.

    K Wilson: good idea about oil investment .... the oil company makes the investment free of interest and gets a negotiable cap on emissions for a fixed period from the Government, until our economy gets back on its feet.
  23. Kevin To You from Canada writes: I want a new Dodge Challenger. I wonder if the Harper government can arrange that?
  24. Jamie Kelley from Vancouver, Canada writes: You have to admire the gall.

    Was it asking too much after the energy crisis of the seventies that our automobile executives might have summoned a creative bone or two and designed vehicles that embraced alternative energy resources, weaned themselves off of the reliance on fossil fuels, built economical, safe, ergonomic, sustainable vehicles? Instead, they give us the SUV and Hummer and have the audacity to whinge for a handout when the market collapses from the weight of their avarice.

    Any political party that endorses this nonsense needs a spanking and banishment to electoral oblivion.

    Oh, and can I have a handout too? I lost my RRSPs due to stupid, careless and thoughtless investments in the auto industry.

  25. David Michaelson from Canada writes: The Big 3 management has made some bad moves over the years, but it's the greed of the unions that have dug the companies in a deep hole. We should not give them any tax money without major concessions from the unions. After all, it's the workers who will benefit the most from our money. Let them put up or shut up if they want to save their jobs.
  26. L B from Canada writes: get the oil and gas companies to bail them , look at the profit they made,no bail out not from us tax payers, no way!!!
  27. Iron Trader from Abbotsford, Canada writes: "The auto maker has not said what form of assistance it wants or how the amount would break ..............." They have been pampered for so long that they actually have the audacity to ask for a mere billion with no plan in sight. They are saying that they know that they will be looked after politically. That's precicely how they have been running their organizations for the many years of their demise and that attitude deserves nothing, that's absolutely nothing. It just reinforces that with all their degrees and professional skills that they just have no management or business skills. Business 101 teaches that to borrow any amount of money banks require a business plan. Irresponsible teenagers just ask for and get money. It's time to either grow up and accept responsibility or ship out. There is just no justification, political or otherwise, to advance funds to this totally mismanaged industry without demanding serious management and union expectation changes - Not now, not ever.
  28. steve B from Canada writes: To all you individuals that wish the Detroit 3 go bankrupt and that they make poor quality cars and are not productive save us all from your total ignorance on the subject.DO SOME RESEARCH !!!!!!!
  29. North Star from Canada writes: When is a bail-out not a bail-out? When it's a Harper bail-out.

    Harper cannot be trusted
  30. Mike Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    North Star from Canada writes: When is a bail-out not a bail-out? When it's a Harper bail-out.
    Harper cannot be trusted
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    What part of "global" are you failing to understand?
  31. Charles Brown from Vancouver, BC, Canada writes: Are the unions prepared to lend a hand and do their part to save the auto companies??? Just asking...
  32. Bert Russell Paradox, BC from Canada writes:
    The Teachers Union in Ontario could cover that and not blink. I'll bet you could cut washers off their backsides tho.

    Steve B: where do you do your research??? CNN?
  33. Kevin To You from Canada writes: Do people seriously lay the blame squarely with the unions for the Big 3's epic failure?
  34. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: steve B from Canada :

    You seem to be claiming that the Big 3 are "productive."

    Show us the research that you are citing, please.

    Cheers
  35. bob gervitz from United States writes: D JL from Canada writes: "If you disagree with the support to the auto industry, then give us your solution to the job loses, bankruptcies, the parts industry failures. Let's hear your wisdom!!!"

    Here's my wisdom DJL. Let the market decide whether the Big Three (so-called) survive or not. Any void that results will be more than adequately filled in short order by far better companies like Toyota and Honda. Indeed, given how many fewer cars are being sold now, there may not even be a void!

    The whole point of let the market decide is that your way, the bail-out way provides no incentive for these incompetent companies and workers to change anything. A bail-out now will only keep these pathetic excuses for car companies bumbling along for a few more months before they come slithering back for another hand-out.

    Far better (if admittedly unpleasant and disruptive) that the Big Three go into bankruptcy protection, ditch the high salaries and pensions, dump 2/3rds of their models, consolidate into one much smaller company and try again, without wasting endless amounts of taxpayer dollars.

    Or would you have taxpayers fund the production of crummy cars in numbers far greater than the market can bear? And what does your bail-out plan say to all those independent car companies (Toyota and Honda etc.) who are competing, profitably, by making quality cars people actually want to buy?
  36. Rain Couver from Canada writes: No.

    Even though Chrysler is the most palatable of the big three, I agree with other posters that the oil companies should help with aid. If they are want to keep us dependent on fuel, then they should contribute.

    At the very least, if we are on the hook for bailing out domestic (if US can be called domestic) auto makers, it should be insisted that it be used for R & D, design, development and manufacture in Canada of autos that use cleaner and cheaper alternative fuels.

    Just saying, if the Conservatives want to squander Canadian surpluses, then they should be pushing a Canadian agenda at the very least.
  37. oscar peter from Victoria, Canada writes: No effin way. Bailouts encourage irresponbible corporate behaviour. They will restructure and the end result will be more sustainable and not all jobs will be lost. Those that are lost can be absorbed by other areas of the Economy. I will be pissed if they give away our money to these entities.
  38. Rain Couver from Canada writes: Oh yeah, a detailed business plan would be required with forensic oversight.
  39. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: bob gervitz from the United States :

    100% agree.

    Yours is the best post of this thread at 2:08 AM...

    Any further contrary minded posters should try debating that one ...

    Slainte
  40. Bruce Zw from Canada writes: It seems that the successful auto companies out there have earned their spot becuase they're smart. The Big 3 have made their bed and need to lie in it. I can live in a world without GM, Ford, and Chrysler. They've had plenty of time to learn. I'll be watching to see what Harper does.
  41. ron blanchard from windsor, Canada writes: the financial industry got 100 billion...chrysler, which supports many canadian suppliers (and thousands of jobs) is asking for 1% of that...who benefits from bankruptcy...except for the legal and accounting firms that specialize in restructuring...?
  42. Just In from Canada writes: This is extortion, with an inside "silent partner" Harper/Flaherty no less.

    Seems like ABC is the only way to stop this madness though that was too little too late.

    Well, those of you who have buyers remorse and voted Harper in can get even not by ranting here but by holding your nose and donating to the federal liberals. This is the only way to get Harper/Flaherty to have second thoughts. I don't quite know how much each tax payer will be dinged with the bail out, but it may just be cheaper to donate and send a signal to stop this madness.
  43. Alan Wong from Canada writes: What a waste of money. spend the money on infrastructure, and employ all the displaced workers that way. At least after spending 1 billion we'll have better roads. 'lend' it to Chrysler, we'll be down 1 billion in a year, AND the workers will be out of jobs anyways, as Chrysler tanks (like it should, considering the fact it doesn't make anything useful).
  44. mond man from victoria, Canada writes: Why would Canada offer to put itself into debt to bail out the American auto industry?

    Why would we spend so much money we don’t have, in what we expect to be the grate economic disaster of 2008, with out thinking?

    Why ford GM and Chrysler? Why not the hundreds of real businesses, who put out a real product the people want to buy? Why not innovate? If I am correct the environment is failing us and there is a huge demand for the return of cars like the E.V.1. Innovation has been the key to the success of many companies in the past. Could it not be the key to the company we lovingly call Canada?

    Could that money not be better spent on meeting our environmental goals?

    What would 1 or 2 billion do for our schools? Will our children benefit after we’ve given all our money to a bunch of rich people?

    Are we going to live in a better Canada tomorrow because of all of this, or is it time for someone to start asking the real questions
  45. Shades of Grey from Canada writes: For all of you saying "Let the auto manufacturers rot and what about the little guy", think about the value of your homes and the stability of your jobs if 400,000 auto jobs disappear. Not to mention the businesses that depend on servicing those jobs and workers, and Ontario's $10 billion annual payments to equalization and the province's contributions to government coffers through gst and income taxes. I agree that the auto companies and unions are largely to blame for this mess, and I have no answers for the problems they face. But I know that things across the entire country will get a whole lot worse if we walk away from the auto sector.
  46. Just In from Canada writes: These plants should be shut down for a few months any way. There is simply too much inventory. Detroit-3 customers probably rely more on credit than "import" brand customers. No one knows when these loans are affordable to this group.
  47. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Just In from Canada :

    Are we to understand from your 2:34 AM comments that the LPC would NOT be offering a bail out package to these Canadian auto makers in this same situation ...

    Even though Obama is considering it ?

    Would you mind clarifying your post if that is, indeed, what you are implying ?

    Slainte
  48. Just In from Canada writes: 1 billion in payroll can keep a lot of people employed for a year to make any thing useful, not cars that rot on the lot. Pump into infrastructure, it would increase our competitiveness. Buy hospital equipment and it will cut down on wait times plus create jobs in north america, may be even Canada as part of a deal. Build a high speed rail link between Windsor and Montreal, and we may have a more efficient business environment. Sustainable jobs can be created, not a bottomless pit. Let the losers fail, and we may even be able to buy into a home grown auto company at bankruptcy prices.

    Do the bail out, and watch Canada's credit rating go down the tubes, with untold damage to business and consumer confidence.
  49. Just In from Canada writes: R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Just In from Canada :

    Are we to understand from your 2:34 AM comments that the LPC would NOT be offering a bail out package to these Canadian auto makers in this same situation ...

    Even though Obama is considering it ?

    Would you mind clarifying your post if that is, indeed, what you are implying ?

    Slainte

    -----------------------------

    Liberals won't form a government any time soon. I have no idea what the Liberals would do, but I know Harper/Flaherty won the last election mostly because of a bigger war chest in advertising and in getting out their core voters. As well, Harper's strategy was to destroy Liberal finances so he could govern like a majority and ignore the public's will. The only way to stop this madness is to tell Harper he will have competition from the Liberals if he proceed with this bail out. Harper will have to think twice. That doesn't mean that one has to vote Liberal the next time.

    If you check out all the major news site and the reader comments, a over whelming majority is against the bail out, but Harper simply ignores the public's will. He may sound conciliatory, but he is ignoring the public. If there are enough donations to Liberals, the Conservative caucus will push Harper/Flaherty to stop this madness.

    $1 billion is a lot of money that can be put to better use, and that's just Chrysler's portion.

    As for Obama, he doesn't run Canada. It will be cheaper for him to let Canada carry out it's own policy than to risk the relationship so long as he sees tangible Canadian public reaction. That is why it is important for the public to do some thing and not just talk. Ironically, if enough of the public takes tangible action, Harper has a stronger mandate to negotiate with Obama on not bailing out Detroit. Obama blinks with Detroit public opinion, he will blink with Canadian public opinion. What is more important, Detroit or Canada?
  50. r john mckinley from fredericton, Canada writes: Legalize and tax marijuana and use the tax revenue to get the domestic manufacturers out of debt, band all imports from third world countries.
  51. david tarbuck from Ukraine writes: One billion dollars for Chrysler Canada? It might be a reasonable figure but ONLY after :
    (1) chapter 11 (bye-bye CAW, curb excess executive pay, ...etc.)
    (2) recognize the need to downsize and producing a plan to do so.
    (3) viable plans to produce the cars wanted and needed by customers in today's environment.
    (4)Canadian government takes a majority equity position , which will only be given up in future when a good business climate allows a full recovery sale of principal and a competitve return on same. Sorry lads, no more corporate welfare bums admitted.
  52. Jeff D from Canada writes: D JL from Canada writes: "If you disagree with the support to the auto industry, then give us your solution to the job loses, bankruptcies, the parts industry failures. Let's hear your wisdom!!! "

    Dean the machine from anywhere, Canada writes: "Give Zenn Motor Company all the money, at least they'll build cars people will want."

    To D JL: Here you go. Why give billions of dollars of tax money to companies that makes s@#tty cars people don't want? How 'bout use that money to create a new, better automaker.
  53. Just In from Canada writes: R Miller from Halifax, Canada,

    Let's even assume for the moment you are a card carrying member of the Conservative Party, but you oppose the bail out. You believe that this is bad for Canada. What can you do to stop it? What are your options? At this time, the Liberals are so weak they won't be able to form a government. Donations may mean they become a more credible opposition. If it creates an environment of better accountability for your leader, what is the problem to you? None, really. Because it would mean a better government that stands a better chance of getting re-elected.

    I am not a partisan, so I vote for performance and delivery, not ideology or rhetoric. The choice is yours.
  54. Jeff D from Canada writes: GM, Chrysler, Ford you deserve to receive Canada's CN tower and lots more for free!!! for ......................
    f#$#ing up?

    lol.......
  55. Pvt. Happy from Canada writes: Cars are evil... let them die.
  56. John Smith from Canada writes: Not with my tax dollars. This is just throwing good money after bad. I say we let Chrysler die now, instead of giving them money to stave off their inevitable death.
  57. Paul Bowler from Canberra, Australia writes: The Detroit 3 need Chapter 11 and now! Nothing else will work - no bank will lend them a dollar (no collateral and damn-all chance of repayment!) and nobody would subscribe to a share issue! (Any talk of a proposed share issue and GM and Ford shares will tank to $0.01{that's right, one cent}! Chapter 11 - without Messrs Wagoner, Mulallay and Agnelli and without their Boards of Directors and without the next 2 top layers of "management" (perhaps that should be "mismangement"?) is needed without further delay. The car industry will survive, but at a smaller size, producing vehicles which customers want! It ain't rocket science, and there will be some pain, but it will work! It has to work!!!
  58. Roop Misir from Toronto, Canada writes: Should we also compensate investors for losses in the money markets?
  59. steve B from Canada writes: R Miller from Halifax:You are the type of individual that I am talking about.I suppose you don't have enough time or ability to do your own research.Check out J.D.Power Awards for productivity and, by the way,they are independent:

    Sure, the Chevrolet Impala and Buick LaCrosse are not the most exciting models in GM's lineup, but the Oshawa, Ontario plant that's been cranking out well-assembled W-platform vehicles for years has won a rare honor from J.D. Power and Associates. Power's Founder's Award is reserved for people or corporations that J.D and friends feel are uncommonly dedicated to continual improvement for customers. Oshawa has racked up plenty of Gold and Silver plant awards, and J.D. Power's senior VP for US automotive practice, Gary Dilts, was on hand to present the award to plant manager Dan Hermer and Chris Buckley, president of CAW local 222. It's a scarce bit of positive news about a domestic automaker, and the fact that the plant has demonstrated such a drive to turn out high quality products bodes well for the Camaro, which is set to start rolling out of the Oshawa complex soon.

    [Source: J.D. Power]

    Find the rest yourself.
  60. steve B from Canada writes: R Miller from Halifax: Also check out the Harbour Report:http://www.oliverwyman.com/contentimages/OWENAutomotivePress2008HarbourChart08.pdf.
    P.S.Lay off the Screech!!!!!
  61. JACK V from Canada writes: Maybe Mc Guinty can start with the money from the tobacco law suit,146 million that should go the tobacco families that his government destroyed. Mc Guinty is the new robin hood ,steal from the poor and give to his rich friends,
  62. 4Cryin Outloud from Canada writes: Considering how many jobs depend on the health of the "big 3"why was it allowed to get to this point without a more realistic vision for a sound future? This is not the time to come begging for money, when you're on deaths door, when you're such a huge risk for those of us that prefer to not take such risks. I think we'd be throwing what's already bad money after something that's been pronounced dead more than once already.

    Yesterday the CEOs of the big 3 were asked who flew to DC commercial? Not one of them had done that. Talk about living beyond your means. The slave class buying all their debt, is that what the bible meant when it professed: "The meek shall inherit the earth"

    "Necessity is the mother of invention" Finally, we may see some innovative thinking around the auto industry. Let them think about how to get out of this one on their own or we will never ever evolve the way that we need to in this regard.

    I'm hoping that FORCING the slave class to buy bad corporate debt isn't what the bible was talking about when "The meek shall inherit the earth" was professed.
  63. Jim Brennan from Canada writes: The protection racket may have changed but it is still a racket. There is a great deal of good technology out there that deserves an opportunity. Dragging these dinosaurs forward is counterproductive. Their best efforts are to introduce cutting edge technology others developed years ago. It is time to give creative entrepreneurship another chance.
  64. R. Carriere from Maritimes, Canada writes:

    The most compelling argument against a 'bailout' I have read to date was an op-ed in the New York Times by somebody who perhaps has insight into Michigan, the auto industry, politics, and has himself turned around a business and his dad, turned around AMC car company and was governor of Michigan.....(Willard) Mitt Romney, former republican candidate for the Presidency

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney.html?_r=2&oref=slogin

    or try this : http://tinyurl.com/6kxp3l

    It appears Romney also took the looming disaster of the Salt Lake City Olympic games and turned it into a financial success.

    Some key points but worth the complete read:

    " Without that bailout, Detroit will need to drastically restructure itself. With it, the automakers will stay the course — the suicidal course of declining market shares, insurmountable labor and retiree burdens, technology atrophy, product inferiority and never-ending job losses. Detroit needs a turnaround, not a check."

    ...cntd
  65. R. Carriere from Maritimes, Canada writes:

    ....." First, their huge disadvantage in costs relative to foreign brands must be eliminated. That means new labor agreements to align pay and benefits to match those of workers at competitors like BMW, Honda, Nissan and Toyota.

    Furthermore, retiree benefits must be reduced so that the total burden per auto for domestic makers is not higher than that of foreign producers.

    That extra burden is estimated to be more than $2,000 per car. Think what that means: Ford, for example, needs to cut $2,000 worth of features and quality out of its Taurus to compete with Toyota's Avalon.

    Of course the Avalon feels like a better product — it has $2,000 more put into it. Considering this disadvantage, Detroit has done a remarkable job of designing and engineering its cars. But if this cost penalty persists, any bailout will only delay the inevitable.

    Second, management as is must go. New faces should be recruited from unrelated industries &8212; from companies widely respected for excellence in marketing, innovation, creativity and labor relations.

    ...Much more and a great read!

    http://tinyurl.com/6kxp3l
  66. Kenneth Kwan from Montreal, Canada writes: My first questions to all U.S. car manufacturers looking for financial support is why their U.S. warranty is different from the Canadian one in terms of using after-market parts, and why are your dealers and your company in Canada so arrogant in responding to this issue. Then, let me tell you people here who agree to giving these car manufacturers a financial helping hand. As their survival plans, if these manufacturers have a evolving product line (in terms of fuel economy improvements and emission suppression technologies) in their cards year-after-year, their plans would not work. Would you pay a regular-discounted price to buy a end-of-model-year car ? If you do, you are the biggest sucker. For you to even consider the purchase, you first must have some excellent discount offers. So, no matter which way the potential buyers behave, these manufacturers would have much smaller sales revenues (ie. reduced unit sales and reduced price per unit sold), and thus, net profit. Can these manufacturers make enough money to pay back the financial support in the end ? Would they ask for additional financial support a year/2 years down the road ? Solution: Let them go under, let other stronger competitors or some other outfit take over the remainder of their existing warranties (with the support of the government to create a new industry on car maintenance, irrespective of brand/make/model). The employment/job loss issue will sort itself out because the number of people buying new cars would still have a wide selection of choices in the market (just like people already know - why buy a car from a company which has a high risk of going bankrupt). Most GM/Ford/Chrysler people working in their dealerships know what they had done to turn their customers away to contribute to their own destruction, and with their 'skilled' way of doing business, they will find employment in some other fields (and hopefully not in any car dealerships anymore).
  67. Mister Fartleberry from Toronto, Canada writes: After looking at their monster trucks, ponderous bloated autos and simply wasteful good for nothing crossovers at a dealer recently, I'd be willing to offer them a billion to smash the tooling and take those monstrosities off the planet for good. Maybe they can arrange to make Smart cars under license.
  68. Gardiner Westbound from Canada writes:
    .
    Chrysler Canada is privately owned. Taxpayers' $1-billion will go to millionaires and billionaires invested in owner Cerberus Capital Management, L.P., one of the world's largest private investment firms. It has $25 billion in funds and accounts and significant investments in more than 50 companies. They generate in excess of $60-billion annually.

    -Aozora Japanese bank,
    -Showa Jisho Japanese real estate company
    -Kokusai Kogyo Japanese golf courses
    -Israeli Bank Leumi
    -German bank Handel und Kredit Bankhaus
    -Reinsurance company Scottish Re
    -British TV rental chainBoxclever
    -Telacris Biotherapeutics
    -Defense contractor IAP World Wide
    -Bushmaster Firearms
    -Remington Arms
    -Panther Arms
    -Alamo Rental Car
    -250 Burger Kings
    -655 Albertson's
    -7 television stations
    -$30,000,000 worth of Mike Myers' "The Love Guru"
    -65,000 apartments in Berlin GSW Berlin GmbH

    Let's talk if Cerberus Capital still needs taxpayer money after it has liquidated them.
  69. Take an Extra Sweater from Tirana, writes: Let them all eat cake. They had a nice, long debauch, and now the orgy's over they have to clean up their greedy mess! The markets will straighten it all out after the whole industry goes bankrupt.
  70. Dick Garneau from Canada writes: All the east can think about is "National Energy Program" version III to get the manufacturing economy out of their own self created problems.

    Sure lets decimate Alberta, B.C., Saskatchewan and Atlantic Canada again.

    Canada should do nothing until the foreign Car Companies settle their problem first which is Chapter 11, so the the union contracts can be rewritten, the underfunded pension fund rewritten, senior management replaced, and new arrangements made to settle with suppliers.
    Then and only then should assistance be considered.

    .
  71. Wassup Widat from Canada writes: They need a monthly 4-5 B dollars and have blown through a billion a month. What on earth is one more billion going to do? Slow the bleeding. Give it up. Amalgamate, consolidate, retool, and move on as a business. But like Bombardier, it cannot be done without the mouth fimly panted on the government teat.
  72. Oslo Karmen from Canada writes: Could they sell a jet or 2 to help out?
  73. jck from ontario from Canada writes: Goodby Chrysler . As mentioned above if Cerberus wants to save Chrysler let them do it if not to bad
  74. Toronto Lover from Canada writes: Giving $1bln to Ceberus capital who owns Chrysler would be downright criminal.

    Chrysler makes the worst junk out of the big 3, worst quality and worst line up.

    All the money that's been given to them by the Ontario Government so far has obviously gone down the drain.

    No Bailout for Chrysler.
  75. R. Carriere from Maritimes, Canada writes:

    While a bailout may be the "sexy" political decision, I am NOT at all convinced at this point this is the way to proceed for several reasons.

    The focus continues to be on the Detroit 3, yet almost NEVER are Toyota and Honda mentioned who also manufacture and create jobs in NA.

    First, we need to look at the industry, its sales, and its realistic projections for the next 3-5 years. The market in 2007 sold 17 million vehicles, this year 11 million vehicles. 2009? 2010? One can easily bet even less than that!

    Next, since there are 5 competitors, perhaps only 3 will survive and will need to market vehicles with new technology.

    Having followed the Congressional hearings, it is alarming to notice the sense of entitlement of both management and the UAW of the Detroit 3. They appear to be completely oblivious to the real world in 2008!

    While regular folk struggle and are being laid off--while small and medium size business owners must secure their loans with their assets (homes..) these same feel the entitlement of a tax payer bailout! WHY?

    I say NO, until presented with a realistic plan where survival can be proven until 2011-2012 and payback guaranteed!
    .
  76. Paul F. from ab, Canada writes: Zero in financial aid! The only thing that will get these guys to think radically differently and restructure is to let them file Chapter 11 in the US. The only thing the government should do in such a case is perhaps give warranty support.

    The car consumer isn't going anywhere. Somebody has to sell us cars. Just let them be the best cars. May the best car company win - so far that's Toyota and Honda.
  77. S Guy from Canada writes: MEMO TO: GOVERNMENT
    FROM: HARDWORKING TAXPAYERS
    RE: AUTO BAILOUT

    DON'T DO IT!
  78. Wassup Widat from Canada writes: Gardiner Westbound - excellent information re Cerberus. How can a holding company such as that be at such arms length from this mess ? What is the responsibility of that cartel with regards to this situation?

    R Carriere - a good post as well. A business plan would be a nice a thing to see at this point in time. Entitlement is the correct term for this bunch of losers. Normal people would be ashamed to stand in front of the camera after leading these corporations into the depths of debt. Then again, inept million dollar CEO's are not normal people.
  79. Big John from Canada writes: Lets bailout the people that loose there jobs from this mess by extending EI payments and retraining. I think the government should step in and take the big 3's assets and sell them to make up for the pension money they took... Iam sure the top brass of these companies dont loose anything!

    Like they said in the States, dont but a turnakey on a dead man!!!
  80. Ob Server from Canada writes: Poor management decisions over a decade, excruciatingly expensive employee and pension costs, excessive capacity and poor designs have brought these 3 to the brink of bankruptcy. Its not the financial crisis....thats a smokescreen. It's ineptitude, arrogance, denial and unaccountability which is doing them in. The taxpayer has the right to make demands because they are asking us for a huge loan and like a bank, we need guarantees and we need to see a business plan that makes sense. We should not be writing a blank cheque with no strings to a group who has demonstrated over many years that they are incapable of managing a business successfully. Pick a dealer, ANY dealer and he/she can do a better job of managing any one of those 3 car companies because they have capital and a constituency at stake. What do Wagoner, Mulally and Nardelli have at stake other than egregious salaries and bonuses (and private jets replete with tin cups to beg for our money)? Nothing. And that along with their unglorious history is a great reason to be afraid, very afraid.
  81. Simon Says from Halifax, Canada writes: Not one red cent for any of them. Let them fail. GM's motto should be "GM-Building Cars Nobody Wants".

    Why should they get any of my money? The government doesn't have any money, they have my money.

    One week GM is in talks about taking over Chrysler. The next week they're not because they don't have any money? How stupid can the management be? ( I know, that's a useless question, we all know the answer). Does the management manage from week to week?

    EV1?

    The Little 3 are driven by greed and they say they know what the consumer wants but not really. They try to tell the consumer what they want to buy. If they had products consumers wanted......they wouldn't be going hubcap in hand to bed for money.
  82. Mark Peters from NS, writes: $1B?

    HELL NO.
  83. Earl Anthony from Canada writes: I'm with pm from Canada.

    Let's see pay cuts from auto execs and unions before we even consider any tax dollars!
  84. Richard Keefer from Omemee, Canada writes: There is no way any bailout to the auto industry should be booked by any of our governments as "loans". They should have to be tacked straight onto already-mounting deficits. And when Canadians are asked to tighten their belts because of dizzying deficits, are they going to thank our leaders for these giveaways?

    The auto industry has no unencumbered assets to secure loans, and no prospects of anything but huge continued losses. No prudent person, let alone a politician, should call these "loans", since there is no reasonable expectation of a pay back. And Canadians have just learned that we are being stuck for huge pension deficits that the auto industry cannot repay..

    The auto producers (and their problems) dwarf any organization our government negotiators have experience with. I worry that these babes in the woods will be so razzle-dazzled by their trips to Detroit that they will lose any remaining common sense they have.

    Given that the meagre resources of our governments will have to be allocated sparingly between huge mounting problems, now is no time to blow the wad on an industry that so thoroughly authored its collapse and has no potential of recovering outside of bankruptcy.
  85. Loki Peterson from Toronto, Canada writes: How about the government give me $1.1 billion and I'll start a car company that doesn't suck. Perhaps even Dumbo Flaherty will see the wisdom of my proposal.
  86. J L from Toronto, Canada writes: NO WAY!!!
  87. Wassup Widat from Canada writes: While I tend to agree with the majority of the posts here, I would say this.. " You think the economy sucks today? These will look like good times If even 1 of the big 3 go down." This is going to get a lot uglier than we imagined.
  88. Blaque Jacque Shallaque from Canada writes: NO. No. no!

    Wouldn't it be funny if the Americans let these companies sink/swim on their own, while Canada pumps taxpayer dollars into American companies that don't fiv a guck about Canada except as a cash source.
  89. Big John from Canada writes: Anyone do the math on this one?

    If there is 30,000 people directly working for them??

    and we give 1B to each company
  90. Kenneth Kwan from Montreal, Canada writes: Politicans are partly to blame about these 3 companies (and the other car manufacturers too).

    In the name of job creation, these manufacturers asked various levels of government for Hundreds of Millions of Dollars hand-out in the form of direct cash payments, tax reduction, land, and cessions of all sorts, on promise of opening up an manufacturing plant to employe a few thousand people to produce cars that has a weak or uncertain future.

    As soon as the duration of the hand-out (5-years on average) is near the end, these manufacturers threaten to walk and ask for another round. It is like blackmailing.

    Politicians come up with huge warnings to con us... "if we do not do that now, then... ; if we do not give them that now, the consequence would be severe".

    They have the tricks of those pirates off Somalia.

    Are we tired of this game already ?
  91. R W from Canada writes: I wonder how many MPs would be willing to invest their personal money in stocks of any of the big 3 auto makers? Probably none. So why should they invest tax payers money?

    The only way any money should go to these companies is if they can show a significantly updated, govenrment apporved, business plan and they agree to government oversight of how that money is spent.
  92. Comments closed, censored, deleted or made to disappear from Mini Bushland, Canada writes: No problem... there's plenty of money to go around, is there not? -- Save some for our children who go to school on an empty stomach as well, will you?
  93. Adam Cooper from Kingston, Canada writes: Why exactly should I help subsidize over paid workers? Why should I be forced to bail out myopic executives. The conservatives are proving all over again that they are economic charlatans ... It's tragic they don't see this as something that would make Canadians worse off.

    Bail out the auto sector, save someone ELSE'S job.
  94. Lamont Lamont from Canada writes: I read yesterday that China will buy them up. That will be good. They can tear down the factories ship them to China and offer the CAW workers $7.00/hr and a bowl of rice. No Tax Dollars.