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Inflation drops to 2.6 per cent

HEATHER SCOFFIELD

Globe and Mail Update

Latest comment posted at 11:28 PM EST 23/11/08

Gasoline prices rise at slower rate than previously, while car prices decline ...Read the full article

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  1. Dick Garneau from Canada writes: We might be looking at a real negative inflation rate (deflation) in the coming months.
  2. Misery No one from toronto, Canada writes: I just paid $5.00 for a lb of butter :(
  3. Silver Standard (America is a welfare queen superpower) from Canada writes: Prices are going up in everything that counts, Food, electricity (they are raising it ANOTHER 9 percent this year in NB), and rent. I could care less if gas goes down because nothing else is...we need cheaper. Problem is that "deflation" will not last very long, as soon as prices settle companies will not produce or stock for the lower demand.
  4. The Remnant from Canada writes: :

    And there it is.

    I was waiting for this article. Inflation goes up, inflation goes down, inflation goes up, inflation goes down...

    The purchasing power of your money fluctuates in the short-term, but over the long term, the purchasing power of your money is ALWAYS down.

    A dollar in 1914 is worth 4.5 cents today. If inflation runs at the official rate (2-3%), that means you lose half the purchasing power of you money every 24-36 years, well within your working lifetime. Therefore, you are forced* to invest your money to keep the inflation tax from gnawing away at the value of your money.

    Make no mistake, *inflation is a tax    . The purchasing power of your money is stolen without the money actually being taken from your money. It goes to benefit those who have the power to create money and inject it into the economic pot of soup first, namely the State/Banking cartel.

    Interesting fact. Congressman Ron Paul gets Bernanke (the head of the Federal Reserve) to admit - on air - that "inflation is indeed a tax". That takes some doing. In almost 100 years of the existence of that immoral and unethical institution, the Federal Reserve - as are all central banks - that is something NO head of the Fed ever admitted before.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4yBrxmEOkY

    We need to keep educating ourselves on our monetary system. Too often we get caught up in the "False Opposition" fallacy. For example, the opposite of a Leafs fan is not a fan of another team. The opposite of a Leafs fan is someone who does not care about hockey.

    Likewise, the opposite of, "Should the BoC raise interest rates?" is NOT "Should the BoC lower interest rates?". The opposite is, "There should be no central bank."

    False opposites prevent the true arguments from being discoursed.
  5. Comments closed, censored, deleted or made to disappear from Mini Bushland, Canada writes: Inflation? -- "Long, deep recession", that's the expression generally used now in the top US media, before they start using the D word: dep....ion. How deep? How long? "Nobody can tell" is the prevailing wisdom. And they insist: "This is UNPRECEDENTED". --- Time to stop pretending "we've seen it all before, and many times over". We ain't. And we ain't seen anything yet. --- Let's revisit after the New Year and then review how this whole crisis was handled in Canadian media, this fall. Will make for interesting conversations.
  6. economic slave from Toronto, Canada writes: How accurate are the figures from Stats Can.? How accurately do they reflect inflation for the ordinary every-day Canadian who is paying the bills for everyday needs. ANSWER: NOT ACCURATE AT ALL. If you've ever talked to Stats Can., you will find that the basket of goods they use to determine inflation is not consistent. For example, when determining the inflation on food, the food items which are surveyed from month to month, year to year, do not stay the same. How can you accurately calculate inflation figures when you use different items to determine inflation. What's needed is a consistent basket of goods which are surveyed, and these goods are bought by most indivudals--e.g. milk, eggs, bread, apples, oranges, carrots, potates,meat/fish etc. Also, what is needed is a Household Inflation Figure. In other words, how much money is being paid out by an ordinary household with an average income which I believe is around $50 000. The inflation figure then is calculated on the most common expenses-e.g. property and income taxes, energy costs, food, clothing, automobile costs, repairs,etc. My inflation figures never match Stats Canada's inflation figures. When Stats Canada was reporting inflation figures of around 3%, my inflation figures were more like 50% and climbing. Electricity costs and property taxes have increased much more for my household than 3 percent yearly in the past 7 years.
  7. The Remnant from Canada writes: Comments closed, censored, deleted or made to disappear from Mini Bushland, Canada writes: Inflation? -- "Long, deep recession", that's the expression generally used now in the top US media, before they start using the D word: dep....ion. How deep? How long? "Nobody can tell" is the prevailing wisdom. And they insist: "This is UNPRECEDENTED". --- Time to stop pretending "we've seen it all before, and many times over". We ain't. And we ain't seen anything yet. --- Let's revisit after the New Year and then review how this whole crisis was handled in Canadian media, this fall. Will make for interesting conversations.

    ----

    Wait. Weren't we told by our illustrious leaders not two months ago, everything was peachy? Yet here we are.

    The sad and idiotic thing is that the media keeps going back to these various heads of the Mafia for more quotes, despite the fact they are NOT credible at all. The true causes to this whole debacle will NEVER, EVER be allowed to be discussed in the mainstream collective. The people that work in mainstream media are just as dumb as the public - they all went through 12-13 years of indoctrination in "public education".
  8. Dan Shortt from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Inflation "drops" to 2.6 per cent. Hmmm ... is the gov't paying me that much interest on my Canada Savings Bonds?
  9. The Remnant from Canada writes: :

    Folks, the information is out there, even from so called official sources, it is simply that the State/Media cartel refuse to hype it. Have a look at this graph from the St. Louis Federal Reserve:

    http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/BASE?cid=124

    I expect to see a great deal of "hockey stick" graphs appearing in the next several months.

    (Thanks Brian)
  10. Silver Standard (America is a welfare queen superpower) from Canada writes: The Remnant

    I can't agree with the hockey part but the rest of what you said was totally true. I think the dollars are worth much less than 4.5 cents by now though. We may be in negative territory soon if we are not already there.

    Inflation rates are usually between 2.5 to 3.5 times worst than they say it is and umemployment is at least double.

    If you price todays Dow in 2000 dollars lets say you will see that its probably worth around (using yesturdays number of 7,552.29) 5995.98 using "official numbers" but in real numbers its about 3700 to 4200 on shadowstats.com ( i have to subscribe thats why I don't have the exact number). So overall the stock market is losing money over time.
  11. The Remnant from Canada writes: :

    Alistair McLaughlin, if you are reading these boards today, a great article on mises.org from F.A. Hayek (I encourage all to read it):

    http://mises.org/story/3204

    Let me know what you think.
  12. The Remnant from Canada writes: :
    Silver Standard,

    When I said "hockey stick" I was referring to the shape of the graph. I am not sure what you mean by "I can't agree with the hockey part..."

    Cheers,
    Tax Me!
  13. bob london from Canada writes: I have not paid attention to inflation in years as it is a poor indicator. Gas has been rising slower? WTF? I noticed at the pump it is half of 6 months ago or am I wrong? I have not shopped at Loblaws for a year, can my own Ontario farmer food, cook my own bread, and sew my own cloths. It is better quality but I will buy Ontario first, Canada second and if and only if necessary buy foreign. What is the chance a lazy government worker shops for things only Made in China.
  14. P N from Toronto, Canada writes: The sad part about this number is that it's dictated by the price of oil, in relation to the fact that very little is being done about it.
  15. I, Publius from Canada writes: I like the way we are now focussing on inflation rather than core inflation. When energy was pushing up the inflation rate we were told to focus on core inflation which was not that high. Now that energy prices are falling and inflation is falling ("prices actually fell outright") we are told that the gauge including energy is the "ONE". We should ignore the fact that core inflation has not changed and rejoice that a number we told you is not important has changed.

    I do not mind StatsCan trying to spin. But I wonder why the GM does not see through this. Maybe they could ask StatsCan why the focus has shifted...
  16. Jasper the Black Lab from Vancouver, Canada writes: Is there a real risk of deflation over anything but a short term? Calculating the "overall" or "average" cost of liviing is complicated and tricky. I sense ther have been quite a few price increases at the grocery store, but have not singled any of them out. Gasoline (of which I buy very little) has been on a roller coaster for 4 or 5 years. Cars, and "luxuries' like fancy TVs and cameras are cheaper, if you feel confident enough to spend instead of saving for a rainy day. To heat my home, I buy natural gas at a fluctuating price that just dropped again, and electricity rates were recently lowered for most residential users in BC. My locked-in mortgage has gotten no cheaper of course, but it might when I renew in a little more than a year. Whackos on real estate topics on these forums suggest rents should be plummeting as desperate house- and condo-owners put their places on the market, but a quick view of the rental markes shows emphatically this is not the case. Supply is tight and rents are going up enough that a great many tenants are complaining.
  17. Darren In TO from Toronto, Canada writes: This proves that all harping you armchair economists did about our impeding doom was WRONG. Canada's economy has these types of imbeded control mechanism that soften our impact on the global recession. Consumer spending goes down, so retailers severally reduce their profit margin to stimulate sales and keep shipments moving.

    Along with that we have the BoC that does its part with its moentary policy, and leaves the fiscal policy to the government.
  18. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: Publius, every month statscan releases BOTH numbers; the CPI and the Core CPI. What the media does with those numbers is up to them. Why would StatsCan try to spin inflation numbers in either direction? Hundreds of civil servants work on the index each month. If they are all intentionally trying to torque the numbers, that's an awfully big conspiracy to maintain without anyone blowing the whistle. Remnant, I thanks for the link. I read the mises.org site regularly. Despite their unwavering belief in the Utopian myth-image of the gold standard, I am a big fan of the Austrian School. And F. A. Hayek was the best of the bunch.
  19. Dick Garneau from Canada writes: There should be three inflation rates.
    1. One for MUST items like food, clothing, shelter etc.
    2. One for WANT items like gasoline, cars, TV etc.
    3. One for LIKE items like RV, boats, iPods GPS, etc.

    I agree deflation will be short lived, inflation is longer term.

    .
  20. garlick toast from Canada writes: "A dollar in 1914 is worth 4.5 cents today." Huh? A 1914 dollar would buy 20 seats in a movie theatre or 2 gallons of beer or pay a week's rent in a boarding house.

    Anyway, these stats are cooked.Why include the price of cars? Food,electricity, insurance and land taxes are all up by 10-12% in my 'hood.Beware phoney stats, they're what led to the US getting caught with their shorts exposed.
  21. Politicians are Fascist Pigs from Canada writes: Re;The Remnant from Canada writes;

    Truth hurts, and your thread is oh so truthful and oh so painful.

    The theft of wealth/destruction of captial by the FedR and the central banksters in coming years, perhaps, even months, will be nothing short of diabolical. Debtors, AND savers, are going to get killed.

    While our Pols, regardless of stripes, sit by contemplating ways to manage the population (revolt) when this "financial crisis" finally takes hold, the citizens are left to fend for themselves. The militarization of the police forces (and the China crowd control models), will serve these fascists well.

    Too bad so many citizens will not have the knowledge, or flexibility, or resources to do what little they might to fend off the coming era of hyperinflation which will follow this debacle.

  22. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: Garlick Toast, the price of cars factors in to car-owning families' budgets, which are a majority of Canadians. Not factoring in cars would be the mistake. Dick Garneau, gasoline is not a 'want' item. The bus I was on this morning was standing room only. I'd rather the motorists remain in their cars please.
  23. Jerry Ackerman from Parham, Canada writes: Kevin Phillips (Harper's MAY) shows that inflation is really double digit
    and so does the last page of the hard numbers of The Economist.
    We are captives of the banker-run media where we are lied to and reassured continually in order to distract us from what is really happening. See my July talk on Facebook."jerry ackerman money meltdown".or website since.
    What IS happening ? The barbarian bankers are stealing the value of
    our money and assets by borrowing from the Bank of Canada, using their toxic paper (ABCP,etc) as collateral. As Paul Krugman in the NYTimes put it: "Cash for Trash".
    This temporarily rescues the bankers, leaving the BoC on the hook and systematically deflates the value of the currency.Same as is being done
    in Europe and the U.S.
    If interested further, trace the steps taken by THIS government over the last 14 months in readying this process to steal the value of everyone's assets.Replacing Advisors at the BoC, modifying the BoC Act
    and having a Goldman investment banker-governor for the next 7 years to copy what Goldman Sachs financial forces are doing South of the border.
    This why an election circus was needed to ensure we would not notice.
    (And, does anyone out there think the LIBs would have done it differently ?) Or, the NDP. or the BQ, or the Green ? I DO NOT..
  24. The Remnant from Canada writes: :
    garlick toast from Canada writes: "A dollar in 1914 is worth 4.5 cents today." Huh? A 1914 dollar would buy 20 seats in a movie theatre or 2 gallons of beer or pay a week's rent in a boarding house.

    ------

    garlick, what I meant was that it takes one dollar today to buy you what 4.5 cents would in 1914. That make more sense?
  25. Alistair McLaughlin from Ottawa, Canada writes: Darren in TO, you're wrong. It's all a conspiracy by StatsCan to keep us ignorant and poor, and to support the government's sinister agenda of stealthy hyper-inflation. When gasoline was at $1.50 a litre, these armchair economists were screaming bloody murder because the inflation rate wasn't reflecting that. Now that gasoline has fallen by 50% (72.5 at the Shell near my place this morning) they are insisting that fuel should not be included because it is a luxury item. They are models of consistency and logic.
  26. Bill Woodcock from Canada writes: How can we accuratly gauge what inflation is if we don't factor in everything. It's like saying a dollar is a dollar but you have .87 1/2 cents. I don't know about anyone else, but I need somee of the items that are not included, and they aree not given to me as freebies, and yes, they cost more this month than they did last month. That's like saying "Gee, running my household expenses is cheap, but I don't include heat and electricity to the costs.
  27. The Remnant from Canada writes: :
    Jerry Ackerman from Parham, Canada writes:
    This why an election circus was needed to ensure we would not notice.
    (And, does anyone out there think the LIBs would have done it differently ?) Or, the NDP. or the BQ, or the Green ? I DO NOT..

    ----

    How right you are. All elections are deflections. Voting is the process where we Serfs try to coerce each other into selecting the shade of lipstick that gets applied to the pig of government by "mob rules" or "political might makes right". After the election, the lipstick fades and we get to look at the unvarnished ugly pig.

    In otherwords, every election cycle we get to change a few of the personnel in the Mafia and the fleecing continues.

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

    There is no Left/Right in a feudal system, only top and bottom. Partisan politics is a ruse meant to present us with false choices and false opposites. None are more enslaved than those who believe they are free.
  28. felix balcarce from nanaimo, Canada writes: Ah the science! And the so many other fictions created by us humans! And on the other hand, the reality of everyday people... Home survival's economists and a more tangible reality of having to pay "$5 for a lb. of butter", or $3 for a load of cheap bread, although flower product business is only second best after 'show business'. Oh, I forgot about gasoline and bank's cartel's business, of course. And then the heralds of all these "organized crime institutions". I know the mass media don't like this kind of language other than referred to Mafias' business, but ironically, yesterday (or so) we read about an indictment of one of the most famous one, besides Al Capone, of course: Mr. Dick Cheney's indictment as being part of "Organized crime" activity, so I wasn't that wrong in my perception after all. And the biggest of all in the last few years: The fall of the Wall Street organ... I meant organization. I'm sorry folks, I don't have, nor I understand all those terminology of the (pseudo) science. The gasoline business that increases their per liter prize 15, 20 or more simultaneously with the prize increase by barrel, but take a few weeks to decrease the prize of the liter and only by the cents: 1,09 and that king of joke they like to play on us. Or when Mr. Ralph Klein called the obscene profit by his province, "prosperity". Deflation, inflation and bla, which incidentally bring me memories of that masterfully done movie called "Dangerous Liaison", when John Markevieck (Excuse the spelling) can not stop talking anymore the so many non-sense lies and excuses to his victims and start mimicking the sound of his own words while at the same time look at himself in a mirror. I wonder if this doesn't happen to the masters of art of talking so much about nothing, when they arrive at home and get ready for dinner with the secret of a hidden smile. Yes, a housewife oesn't need all these terminology to realize these everyday rip off reality. Well...

  29. garlick toast from Canada writes: The Remnant from Canada, yes, thanks.
  30. Darren In TO from Toronto, Canada writes: Alistair McLaughlin, you need to stop blaming others for your own personal financial problems. We need to have our focus on our personal financial situation. Our goals & circumstances are most relevant, not the daily ups and downs of the stock markets. If we stay focused on ourselves and try to remove our emotions from our investment portfolios, we will stand a much better chance of achieving our goals if they are realistic in nature. Emotional decisions usually have negative consequences.
  31. Alistair McLaughlin from Ottawa, Canada writes: Jerry Ackerman, so the elections in canada and the US were just distractions to keep us from noticing the banks stealing our money? Goddam. Whodda thunk it? Jerry, here's a little rule I apply when assessing the latest conspiracy theory: Never assign to a conspiracy those events that can be attributed to basic stupidity, human greed and short-sightedness. Funny thing is, I manage to disabuse myself of nearly every silly conpiracy notion that enters my atrophied little brain. It leaves me with a rather dull, but far more grounded view of current events. Even the computer chip implanted in my head by the CIA to track my movements has failed to spark a more imaginative interpretation of events.
  32. Wealthy CEO of a Canada Retailer, We sell everything 50% Higher in Canada from Canada writes: food price is up a lot after the mighty loonie fell hard. Stats Canada data can not be trusted - just walk into any grocery store and watch the price of apple, orange - they all go up.

    In US, gas price has fell to $1.6/gallon (year 2002 price), where in Toronto we still see it hoovering at 85/litter. The discrepancy means that inflation runs a lot higher in Canada.
  33. Matt Stiles from Vancouver, Canada writes: Yes, The Remnant is correct. Inflation is a tax - on the poor. If you can access credit, it doesn't bother you because you can buy assets that are rising and protect yourself. The poor can't, and that is why there is an ever-growing wealth gap.

    On another matter, the article and the BoC have their theory WRONG. Inflation is not rising prices. Rising prices are a symptom of a rise in the supply of money and credit. Deflation would be the opposite. Credit is contracting in the US - therefore they have deflation and have for quite a while. We're not there yet. But we will be.

    The current definition of inflation is just one more gap in the logic of Keynesian Economic Theory that is coming apart at it's seams.

    www.mises.org is where you will find the truth.
  34. Don Portz from Trochu AB, Canada writes: I notice that many posters complain about the accuracy of the statistics published with regard to Inflation and many other aspects of the economy. As a former Analyst, you can be 100% assured that they are not accurate and do not really represent a number you can take to the Bank. As with all analyses, they are only an indication as to what might be happening and possibly a measurement to some historical similar data. Accordingly do not rely heavily on what is published but rather as only an indication of what may be happening.
  35. The Remnant from Canada writes: :
    Alistair, what do you define as a conspiracy theory? How about another phrase?

    "Backroom politics" - if we all agree that it exists but cannot be tangibly proved, is it not a conspiracy theory?

    If you believe that a conspiracy theorist is someone who espouses alternative viewpoints without substantiation of fact, can we not also attribute those traits to a "coincidence theorist" - one who accepts the official story without questioning the official substantiation of fact?

    To be sure, there are fringe people who will never let go of their pet conspiracy theories no matter how many dump trucks of facts that you dump in front of them, but I also offer you that there are many mainstream "coincidence theorists" that will hold onto their beliefs no matter how many facts you dump in front of them. Just look at those twits Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity.

    At risk of painting a broad stereotypical picture, is that most (not all) "conspiracy theorists" want to expose the truth, whereas "concidence theorists" want to avoid looking at it.

    What say you? I mean that note with respect and am not attempting to admonish you at all.
  36. The Remnant from Canada writes: :
    Don Portz from Trochu AB, Canada writes: I notice that many posters complain about the accuracy of the statistics published with regard to Inflation and many other aspects of the economy. As a former Analyst, you can be 100% assured that they are not accurate and do not really represent a number you can take to the Bank. As with all analyses, they are only an indication as to what might be happening and possibly a measurement to some historical similar data. Accordingly do not rely heavily on what is published but rather as only an indication of what may be happening.

    ---

    Thank you for joining the conversation, Don. As a former analyst (would you mind stating what you analyzed?) can I put forth a question?

    If the official analysis is not correct, does it make it any more or less valid than, say the data on shadowstats.com?

    Thanks!
  37. The Remnant from Canada writes: :
    Matt Stiles,

    I am a B. Eng (in a few months, I expect to be a P. Eng) but I am gearing up to pursue a degree in economics @ Mises University, graduating in 2010. Is this something you have considered?

    I have discovered that I have read a great deal of the curricula without actually knowing what Mises.org was. I wish I knew about this in high school, oh so long ago...my professional life would have taken a completely different tact.

    I caved in and bought an iPod a few months ago. Not that there is any music on it anymore. I have downloaded audiobooks and podcasts from sources you could probably guess.

    I can't tell you how different the commute into work is now. Turning mainstream catatonia off was the greatest thing I ever did for my brain.
  38. Kim Morton from Canada writes: The nice thing about statistics is that you can manipulate them to get any conclusion you want. Want to say that unemployment is down? Simply don't count anyone whose EI has expired. Presto, they are no longer unemployed. Inflation running too high? Don't count fuel and real estate because their huge jumps are ruining your predictions. Want to prove that inflation is good? Just show the higher returns to investors. Inflation too high? Simply show the effects on those on fixed incomes with no investment income ( most of us) who work for wages or live on a pension.
  39. J Kay from Canada writes: Kim Morten: Sure but your comment applies to everything and anything. So what. The point of any statistical metric is that it is measured the same way each time to provide a point of comparison. I'm with Alistair on the conspiracy theory issue.
  40. Kevin Go Riders from Canada writes: Don Portz great comment.

    As for those who complain that that Stats Cans number are not 100% perfect, have you ever used a road map if you have here is a hint its not 100% accurate either. The map is 3 ft square and a province is 250,000 plus minus, miles square. A map helps you chart a course and usually gets you to a destination. Try one some time.
  41. R. Slicker from Edmonton, Canada writes: Car prices have declined??? They've got way more to go...eg. a Toyota RAV4 has always been at least 25% more on Toyota Canada's website vs the Toyota US website, regardless of the Can / US exchange rate.
  42. garlick toast from Canada writes: The Remnant from Canada writes, in part,''I can't tell you how different the commute into work is now. Turning mainstream catatonia off was the greatest thing I ever did for my brain.''

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    LOL ,and then some. Welcome to the world of the fully awake. I hope you have a "cloaking device" for hanging around with the P eng.crowd. There's a lot of sleep walkers in that bunch.
  43. J Kay from Canada writes: Tax Me: Why exactly would you attended Mises University? Besides having an entirely biased agenda based curriculum, if anything it will simply water down your B.Eng which I'm assuming you obtained from a reputable university.

    If you wish to study economics why not do a degree at the LSE or even a Canadian university. I'm sure you can get a degree of exposure to Austrian School doctrine, without the wholesale indoctrination.
  44. Jeremy K from Canada writes: ahahaha
    The governments of the world will stop at nothing in an effort to make sure they don't have to give the common man a payrise.

    These bureaucrats decided that goods that had massive price increases suddenly are no longer counted on the inflation index, so prices everywhere go up for all things but no, the rate of inflation stays nice and low - a neat way to fiddle the problem and now that some of these same things are dropping in price suddenly they do count for inflationary indexing purposes after all and the rate gets slashed.

    Thereby making it even easier to deny all the peons their payrises, inspite of spiralling costs everywhere.
  45. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: Darren in TO, I think you misunderstood my posts. Or just missed the sarcasm in some of them. Admittedly I'm far too cryptic sometimes.
  46. R. Slicker from Edmonton, Canada writes: Jeremy K writes: The governments of the world will stop at nothing in an effort to make sure they don't have to give the common man a payrise.

    These bureaucrats decided that goods that had massive price increases suddenly are no longer counted on the inflation index, so prices everywhere go up for all things but no, the rate of inflation stays nice and low - a neat way to fiddle the problem and now that some of these same things are dropping in price suddenly they do count for inflationary indexing purposes after all and the rate gets slashed.

    Thereby making it even easier to deny all the peons their payrises, inspite of spiralling costs everywhere.

    Jeremy; Can you imagine the financial havoc if all of the peons were compensated appropriately? The bluebloods would never stand for it...it would be like...paying your slaves; then they would get ahead.
  47. Proud Newfoundlander from Republic of Newfoundland, Canada writes: Who cares!!

    Newfoundland led Canada in new car sales in 2007 and it looks like we are going to do it againt this year. There were almost 17,000 new cars sales in NL for the first half of 2008, that is an increase of 12% over the same period last year.

    Retail sales are up here for the first part of 2008 by 7.1%
    Capital Investment for 2008 is up by 15%

    Add to that the fact that we here in NL pay higher prices for everything compared to the rest of Canada (with the exception of the North of course) our economy continues to grow.

    Another positive sign for our province is that in 2008 our population decline that has been happening for a long long time has finally started to reverse and we areactually getting more Newfoundlanders moving back home.

    The only thing we are worried about now is the decline in price of oil and minerals. Although they are still at a price that is quite profitable.
  48. The Remnant from Canada writes: :
    J Kay from Canada writes: Tax Me: Why exactly would you attended Mises University? Besides having an entirely biased agenda based curriculum, if anything it will simply water down your B.Eng which I'm assuming you obtained from a reputable university.

    If you wish to study economics why not do a degree at the LSE or even a Canadian university. I'm sure you can get a degree of exposure to Austrian School doctrine, without the wholesale indoctrination.

    -----

    Hi J Kay, haven't seen you in a while, hope all is well.

    Define "reputable". One that is sanctioned by....whom? "Watering down my B.Eng?" Please explain. I did get my B. Eng. from a so-called reputable University, although folks that graduated from other universities claimed it wasn't...;)

    I am sure that mainstream "reputable" universities have an entirely biased curricula towards Keynes and the current "successful" economic model that is in place today. I'll probably get a "F" anyway...

    I don't have a lot of time to deal with those deflections in school, as I need to run for office to hopefully get elected to work myself out of a job by dismantling the State as much as possible and return a great deal of functions to the free market. I imagine that I'll have a number of colleagues in Parliament that will feel exactly the same way...or not. I'll probably be real popular at the water cooler.

    Look, I want to end corruption....unless I can profit from it. ;)
  49. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: Remnant, I'll go with conincidence, unless facts show otherwise. Backroom politics are alive and well, but collective stupidity, human greed and short-sightedness still have a way of shredding the plans of even the wiliest backroom player. And I don't believe that political and/or business leaders are any more stupid, greedy or short-sighted than the rest of us. Just that they have better access to the levers of power and economic decision making. Thus, their human foibles have a much bigger impact on the rest of us than vice versa. Sometimes a confluence of purely random events can indeed derail things. And our short-sightedness causes us to be blindsided by things we really should have seen coming. Being human, we don't like events that defy explanation, or that lack a causal narrative. So we tend to attribute things to a deliberate cynical manipulation by shadowy figures, and we have no trouble pointing to certain decisions or connections that seem to support such a narrative. However, given the massive risks and spectacular losses that accompany any economic downturn, it really makes no sense for ANYONE to have intentionally brought about the current state of affairs.
  50. Brian Martin from Canada writes: Matt Stiles writes, "Rising prices are a symptom of a rise in the supply of money and credit. Deflation would be the opposite. Credit is contracting in the US - therefore they have deflation and have for quite a while."

    I read a great article this morning that pointed out that the 'deflation' that the US is seeing is actually the result of a significant decrease in the VELOCITY of money despite the Feds obvious effort to keep pumping it into the system. The credit contraction is really a lack of willingness of the banks to lend and borrowers to borrow. Bernanke is determined to overcome this inertia by continuing to pump money in at ever quickening pace. See the St. Louis Fed graph.

    The result will be one of two things. Either they force prices to rise by making money so cheap and plentiful that people start spending and borrowing again or they fail to stimulate the velocity of money, but have created so many US dollars that the currency is debased on a global basis.

    Either scenario presents a strong case for Gold, which, as long as it does not fall below $650, remains on an unbroken uptrend since 2000.
  51. Magnus Torontonius from Canada writes: Inflation and interest are an invisible tax on the populace. You have to make returns on your investments equal to or greater than the rate of inflation to even stay afloat.

    My question is why don't the newspapers report economic numbers in terms of Real Dollars? Perhaps taking inflation (or the debasing of currency) into account is too complicated for the unwashed masses?
  52. Canuck with Questions from Canada writes: poor Obama!

    he will be throwing lots of soap opera to get us through the tough times!
  53. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: Kim Morton, those whose EI has expired are certainly counted in the unemployment rate, and always have been. Only those who have not looked for work in the past six weeks are excluded. Whether or not they are collecting EI is irrelevant. The unemployment rate is determined by the monthly Labour Force Survey of 60,000 households in Canada, and is probably the most accurate (though by no means complete) statistic the government publishes. For a more complete picture, one must also consider the Labour Force Participation Rate and other statistics, which measure net employment levels in a different way.
  54. The Remnant from Canada writes: :
    Brian Martin from Canada writes: Matt Stiles writes, "Rising prices are a symptom of a rise in the supply of money and credit. Deflation would be the opposite. Credit is contracting in the US - therefore they have deflation and have for quite a while."

    I read a great article this morning that pointed out that the 'deflation' that the US is seeing is actually the result of a significant decrease in the VELOCITY of money despite the Feds obvious effort to keep pumping it into the system. The credit contraction is really a lack of willingness of the banks to lend and borrowers to borrow. Bernanke is determined to overcome this inertia by continuing to pump money in at ever quickening pace. See the St. Louis Fed graph.

    The result will be one of two things. Either they force prices to rise by making money so cheap and plentiful that people start spending and borrowing again or they fail to stimulate the velocity of money, but have created so many US dollars that the currency is debased on a global basis.

    Either scenario presents a strong case for Gold, which, as long as it does not fall below $650, remains on an unbroken uptrend since 2000.

    ----

    Good post. I believe the phrase that should be applied to the Fed is "pushing on a string."

    Could it be that the participants in our consumption based economy are actually....saving (i.e. technically....hoarding money)?
  55. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: Magnus Torontonius, I'm sure everyone would then complain about how the inflation and the real currency values were calculated. Scratch that. They're already complaining about it.
  56. O Perdana from Canada writes: "Inflationary pressure in Canada has evaporated".....
    HaHaHaHoHoHo
    Always a good laugh from the clowns at Stats Can.
  57. Buddy Rich from Toronto, Canada writes: Soooo, is everybody happy now that gas prices have come down! :-)
  58. Matt Stiles from Vancouver, Canada writes: The Remnant,

    I have contemplated a stint at Mises U, but am not too keen on 2 years in the southern states. If they had a distance ed program, I'd definitely be willing to spend the time. Until then, I'll just continue educating myself through the writings of Mises, Rothbard, Hayek and others. It has been working thus far, as investing based on principles of the Austrian School has yielded huge returns in the last few years. I operate a blog at furtronomics.blogspot.com as well. Check it out. I'm relocating to Germany today for an undetermined amount of time.

    On another note, I agree with above posters on the "conspiracy" issue. Although I am aware of shadowy institutions like the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, the Federal Reserve, Bilderberg Group, etc, I prefer to believe the injustices being perpetuated on us are a result of individuals acting in their own self-interest. The problem is, these people have been given far too much power to use at the expense of others.

    The power of government officials, lobbyists, company executives, must be reduced to the same level of power of individual citizens.

    The solution cannot be the same as the problem. The most elementary logic dictates this.

    Good discussion here folks. Keep it up.
  59. The Remnant from Canada writes: :
    Alistair, may have to split my response over two posts. Sorry.

    Remnant, I'll go with conincidence, unless facts show otherwise. Backroom politics are alive and well, but collective stupidity, human greed and short-sightedness still have a way of shredding the plans of even the wiliest backroom player.

    Or not. Sometimes those plans work out. Not that we Serfs will ever know.

    And I don't believe that political and/or business leaders are any more stupid, greedy or short-sighted than the rest of us. Just that they have better access to the levers of power and economic decision making.

    I do. Why? Let's say 0.1% (I made it up) per capita are filled with folks who are narcissistic or psychopaths. As you move closer to the levers of power, you'll find an ever increasing rate of percentage per capita of these folks who have worked all their lives to put themselves into those positions of power, such as high-level positions in government (control of the gun) and corporations (control of private power).

    Thus, their human foibles have a much bigger impact on the rest of us than vice versa.

    Then we should be working towards eliminating the apparatus that gives them control (i.e. government) or limiting the impact of their power (i.e. competition, the abrogation of limited liability laws) in corporations, no?

    Sometimes a confluence of purely random events can indeed derail things.

    I am reminded of the words of FDR, "In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way."
  60. Brian Martin from Canada writes: Alistair McLaughlin writes, "Being human, we don't like events that defy explanation, or that lack a causal narrative. So we tend to attribute things to a deliberate cynical manipulation by shadowy figures, and we have no trouble pointing to certain decisions or connections that seem to support such a narrative." Good point but the obverse is also true. Humans tend to have a need to believe in meta structures that allow them to segregate and compartmentalize the unknown as being controlled by a higher or more knowledgeable power. Hence, what Dawkins terms the God Delusion. I'm not trying to turn this into a religious discussion but I believe the analogy is apropos. Most people simply abandon contemplation of these types of issues because the feel under-educated and ill-equipped to do so. The standard self defense mechanism in this case for most is to say that someone better-educated and better-equipped than you will take care of it, and most people tend to have an altruistic view of this process. Anyone who questions this norm is termed a conspiracy theorist. The real question in my mind is what happens next? If you believe the system is broken, what replaces it? What we are arguing here is that the Federal Reserve has, on a prima facie basis, over the last 95 years, been an abject failure at executing its manadate of maintaining stable money and smoothing out the business cycle. The US political process has aided and abetted this. Some improvements would include, 1) A return to sound money 2) Term limits for congress 3) Removal of lobbyists in Washington etc. Will any of these occur? Einstein said that you cannot fix a problem with the same thinking that created the problem (paraphrased). Or if you prefer, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.
  61. steve allan from Canada writes: Canada is the only country that hasn't seen a full reduction in pump prices. The U.S. and Europe have enjoyed full declines in the price of gas. Canada is the only Western nation where the price remains 35% too high. Gas prices should be in the 60 to 65 cent range, not in the high 70s and low 80s.

    Of course we have a PM who is the major integrated oil companies chief lobbyist in Ottawa. It's a shame we elected that liar and hypocrite. During the campaign he said he would monitor the price of gas and make sure it reflected real market prices. Of course once elected he chucked that promise aside and put back on his lobbyist hat.

    Harper - out in 2009!
  62. Alistair McLaughlin from Ottawa, Canada writes: Steve Allan, you must be joking. Gasoline has fallen 50%. And that's not enough for you? What is Harper doing to keep the price so high? Remnant, I think FDR's comment was just a silly statement that sounded like it made sense at the time. For example, I doubt he planned to die before his third term was complete. Sometimes, $hit indeed does just happen.
  63. The Remnant from Canada writes: :
    Alistair, continued:

    Being human, we don't like events that defy explanation, or that lack a causal narrative. So we tend to attribute things to a deliberate cynical manipulation by shadowy figures, and we have no trouble pointing to certain decisions or connections that seem to support such a narrative.

    Actually, I think our society has devolved to the point of not caring about the explanation anymore. So I think we tend to being manipulated by who is going to win American Idol, being good consumers, and occasionally participating in an election because we really think "Obama is soooo distinguished looking" or "Palin is a hottie.", but I'll bet you 95% or better of voters who picked Obama could not recite a single....freaking....policy....he....supports. Some of us even select who they are going to vote for based on (a) who they always voted for or (b) who their Dad voted for.

    Cynicism aside, for the moment, I think most people have been successfully been brainwashed by the State/Media cartel that what they say is the truth. Recall the hysteria of, "There are weapons of destruction in Iraq!" or "Iraq has ties to al-Qaida!" or the 1 month of excessively hyped "white powder arsenic letters" that helped dilute the perception that 9/11 was more than a "one off attack", but that story disappeared off the shelf within weeks.

    However, given the massive risks and spectacular losses that accompany any economic downturn, it really makes no sense for ANYONE to have intentionally brought about the current state of affairs.

    At best, the TRUE causes of this malaise will never be discussed. At worst, follow the money. Was it coincidence that a number of large scale investors (i.e. Joe Kennedy) that liquidated their holdings a week before the crash of '29? I don't know.
  64. steve allan from Canada writes: Alistair McLaughlin from Ottawa - first of all they have not fallen 50%. I suggest you do some research before you post things. Second, how far they have fallen is irrelevant. What matters is whether they reflect market prices. Oil has fallen by two-thirds and so has unleaded gasoline on the futures market.

    The big integrated oil companies control gas distribution in this country and they are using their monopoly of the market to keep prices higher than the market price. It's a cartel and the Harper government isn't doing a thing to prevent it.
  65. The Remnant from Canada writes: :
    Brian Martin from Canada writes: Einstein said that you cannot fix a problem with the same thinking that created the problem (paraphrased). Or if you prefer, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.

    -----

    I've discovered this quote along my travels:

    'Reform cannot be achieved by a well-intentioned leader who recruits his followers from the very people whose moral confusion is the cause of the disorder.' - Socrates
  66. Alistair McLaughlin from Ottawa, Canada writes: Brian Martin, yes, we tend to attiribute a drought to the gods punishing us, or to the fact that we didn't do the rain dance and sacrifice the goats when we were supposed to. But that pretty much fits in with what I said. Whether it's God, or "the corporations" or the government or the Bilderberg Group, all are simplistic beliefs that allow us to think we are the victims. The reason most humans chose God (or gods) up until recently is because it allowed them to delude themselves into thinking that if they only sacrificed one more goat, or prayed more, or did more rain dances, they could indeed influence the future for the better. Remnant, I don't buy the theory that narcissists and sociopaths are that much more successful than the rest of us. True, they tend to rise above their station, at least for a time, because they are uninhibited by conscience or concern for others. And they do tend to be above average in their ability to earn followers and manipulate people. But narcissists also tend to make enemies along the way, and obsess over meaningless interpersonal conflicts (and on destroying their enemies that result from these conflicts). I've known narcissists/sociopaths - some were somewhat successful, while others destroyed themsevles from within. None rose to the top of the corporate or political ladder that I'm aware of.
  67. Matt Stiles from Vancouver, Canada writes: steve allan - stop trying to hijack this thread with your partisanship. Anyone with half a brain knows there is no difference between Harper or any of the mainstream alternatives.

    The Canadian dollar has fallen more than 25% from when gas at the pump was $1.50/litre CDN. Canadians pay international market rates for their gasoline just as any non communist nation. The price declines you mention are in USD. Convert to CDN and you have approximately the $0.919/litre we are paying now.
  68. Alistair McLaughlin from Ottawa, Canada writes: Steve Allan, we're getting pretty close. Here are the latest prices in Ottawa.

    http://www.ottawagasprices.com/
  69. Brian Martin from Canada writes: Nice Socrates quote, Remnant.

    Regarding this, "Was it coincidence that a number of large scale investors (i.e. Joe Kennedy) that liquidated their holdings a week before the crash of '29? I don't know."

    I do think that we need to be cognizant of the use of "post hoc, ergo propter hoc" logic. It literally means, the end, therefore the beginning and can be the source of much logical fallacy when looking through the prism of history. In this case, a question we might ask is, would we know who Joe Kennedy was if he hadn't liquidated his stock holdings prior to the crash? Would he have had as much influence had he not maintained his financial clout?

    Again, without straying too much into religion, it is similar to the tendency for people to say, I don't understand how the universe came into being, therefore God created it. He may have, he may not have, but that set of data can't actually prove either case.
  70. Chris Halford from Ottawa, Canada writes: Alistair McLaughlin - steve allan is correct, oil has fallen from something like $140 per barrel to about $50. Gas prices have not fallen at the same rate - it's nice to get a break but it should be a bigger break. When there was just a possibility of hurricane damage to oil rigs in the Gulf of Mexico, the price of gas went up 10c/litre overnight even though the oil companies had zero extra cost.

    BTW, does anybody know why the Globe is not running a headline on Kevin Page's announcement in the Commons that the upcoming deficts are the CPC government's fault for cutting GST and corporate tax rates and not because of the current economic downturn? I find it amusing that the neo-cons commonly complain here about Globe bias against the government but here we have a total no-show of dramatic news. The Globe also pitched in to support Harper at the end of the last election campaign.
  71. The Remnant from Canada writes: :
    Brian Martin from Canada writes:

    I do think that we need to be cognizant of the use of "post hoc, ergo propter hoc" logic. It literally means, the end, therefore the beginning and can be the source of much logical fallacy when looking through the prism of history. In this case, a question we might ask is, would we know who Joe Kennedy was if he hadn't liquidated his stock holdings prior to the crash? Would he have had as much influence had he not maintained his financial clout?

    Fair enough. I was citing it for example. Unfortunately, a number of "facts" sometimes don't come out until the event is history.

    For those pondering the "post hoc, ergo propter hoc" Brian cited above, it means this:

    1) A happened.
    2) B happened after A.
    3) Therefore, A caused B.

    Which of course, is not necessarily true.
  72. Chris Halford from Ottawa, Canada writes: Alistair McLaughlin from Ottawa, Canada writes: Steve Allan, we're getting pretty close. Here are the latest prices in Ottawa.

    http://www.ottawagasprices.com/

    ==================

    I forgot about oil being priced in US dollars - I retract my comment about gas prices should be lower. I stand by my comment about the price shooting up before the gas companies incurred costs however. I'm baffled about why the Globe is not reporting on Page's statement about the deficit.
  73. Steve I'm Not an Alberta Redneck from Calgary, Canada writes: These numbers are rigged to understate inflation. This is one of the legacies of the Reagan era. They take out things that are going up and substitute in things like electronics where "quality" is rapidly improving so they can pretend that consumers are better off. Also, they claim there is a substitute effect. As people become gradually poorer, they go from steak to chicken to ground beef to beans to cat food and "voila" - they don't need a raise!

    If people could understant how the CONs and RepubliCONs have gamed the system in their favour, they would get less than 10% ov the vote. Instead voters listen to their racist pastors who advise them to vote in their (the wealthy religious leader's) interests. Right wing trash never had it so good!

    Such systems usually end up with the people waking up and using something like the Guillotine to restore balance.
  74. The Remnant from Canada writes: :
    Remnant, I don't buy the theory that narcissists and sociopaths are that much more successful than the rest of us. True, they tend to rise above their station, at least for a time, because they are uninhibited by conscience or concern for others. And they do tend to be above average in their ability to earn followers and manipulate people. But narcissists also tend to make enemies along the way, and obsess over meaningless interpersonal conflicts (and on destroying their enemies that result from these conflicts). I've known narcissists/sociopaths - some were somewhat successful, while others destroyed themsevles from within. None rose to the top of the corporate or political ladder that I'm aware of.

    ----

    I should have generalized to those who have lust/cravings for power, cloaked as ambition, instead of picking specific labels. My apologies, Alistair.

    We knew a few that rose to the top of the political ladder. Hitler. Stalin. Bush? Why in God's name would someone want to be Prime Minister or President of the United States? John McCain who has openly admitted "ambition" was the primary reason for his seeking office before his handlers toned it down into that "Country First" sloganeering.
  75. The Remnant from Canada writes: :
    Socrates - jeepers he's useful today - stated that the ones who should be given any power are the ones who least want it.

    If that's the qualification, I should be Supreme Leader of the Universe. ;)
  76. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: Remnant, I don't believe that McCain is a sociopath, or anything close to it. Bush? I'm not sure. But even Bush is no Stalin or Hitler.
  77. Chris Halford from Ottawa, Canada writes: "TORONTO -- The Conservative government's decision to cut the GST and slash corporate taxes -- and not the global economic downturn -- is the cause of a looming deficit, parliamentary budget officer Kevin Page said yesterday in his first report on the state of government finances."

    The article is at http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2008/11/21/7486366-sun.html

    The Globe has an article hidden as a subhead under Politics but does not mention the statement about the cause of the deficit.
  78. The Remnant from Canada writes: :
    Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: Remnant, I don't believe that McCain is a sociopath, or anything close to it. Bush? I'm not sure. But even Bush is no Stalin or Hitler.

    ----

    Maybe its simply a matter of degree of how crazy you are :)
  79. Joe Average from Vancouver, Canada writes: Why in God's name would homeowners insurance premiums going up for 2009? Just got my premium renewal. I am being advised of a 16.5% increase for next year! Suggest everyone call up their insurance brokers and give them hell!!